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Flying IFR: Need help on ADF use

BaD CrC

By BaD CrC
in DCS: Ka-50 Black Shark

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BaD CrC

BaD CrC

Posted
Posted

Hi Guys,

 

Was flying some IFR patterns around Sochi airport last night with my squad. We wanted to be able to do ADF approaches without using the ABRIS.

SO (Sierra Oscar) beacon is apparently on ADF Freq number 5. Turned ADF mode switches to TLG and COMPASS but ADF needle on HSI was either not moving or spinning around without stopping. Turned reception to ANT and got no aural indication that I was receiving the signal. Strangely enough, we got some aural ident on ADF Freq 4 and 6 but I couldn't identify the morse code so we had no idea which ADF we were receiving. Tried fo follow Freq 6 but it was pointing apparently to some far away beacon, further than SCH ADF.

We flew above the terrain, then far away from the sea with Freq 5 (SO) and never reveiced anything.

Are we doing something wrong? Manual is not very easy to understand when it comes to instrument flight.

:helpsmilie:

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-Mop-

-Mop-

Posted
Posted
Hi Guys,

 

Was flying some IFR patterns around Sochi airport last night with my squad. We wanted to be able to do ADF approaches without using the ABRIS.

SO (Sierra Oscar) beacon is apparently on ADF Freq number 5. Turned ADF mode switches to TLG and COMPASS but ADF needle on HSI was either not moving or spinning around without stopping. Turned reception to ANT and got no aural indication that I was receiving the signal. Strangely enough, we got some aural ident on ADF Freq 4 and 6 but I couldn't identify the morse code so we had no idea which ADF we were receiving. Tried fo follow Freq 6 but it was pointing apparently to some far away beacon, further than SCH ADF.

We flew above the terrain, then far away from the sea with Freq 5 (SO) and never reveiced anything.

Are we doing something wrong? Manual is not very easy to understand when it comes to instrument flight.

:helpsmilie:

 

 

i tried to do an instrumentnavigation by adf... but diudnt work as well... what you descriebed sounded much like what happend to me.

 

although close NDBs had hearable morse signala... the rmi needle didnt point in that direction... or turned slowly

 

please help...

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dooom

dooom

Posted
Posted

I always had the same problem too... I also had trouble getting the needle to point to my wingman transmissions which I understand it is capable of...

ASUS Tuf Gaming Pro x570 / AMD Ryzen 7 5800X @ 3.8 / XFX Radeon 6900 XT / 64 GB DDR4 3200 

"This was not in the Manual I did not read", cried the Noob" - BMBM, WWIIOL

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-Mop-

-Mop-

Posted
Posted
BS pilots are not a very talkative bunch... :)

 

After having time to look at info provided in the link, it seems we have no inner beacon because they are "nil".

 

I'll keep at it... you guys have done enough haha. :)

 

 

Sorry... didnt know that a reply was needed ;-)

Did i understand you right, that i should enter the the phrases you mentioned in the other thread and my adf then will work correctly?

 

I just ask, beacause the syntax is completly different. My Ark.lua looks like this:

mode = ADF_ADF

receiver_mode = ADF_RECEIVER_TLF

homer_selection_method = ADF_HOMER_SELECTION_AUTO

channel = 1

volume = 0.5

 

channels = {

[1] = runway_homer_pair(Airdrome[Krasnodar],nil,localizedAirdromeName(terrainAirdromes[Krasnodar])),

[2] = runway_homer_pair(Airdrome[Maykop] ,nil,localizedAirdromeName(terrainAirdromes[Maykop])),

[3] = runway_homer_pair(Airdrome[Krymsk] ,nil,localizedAirdromeName(terrainAirdromes[Krymsk])),

[4] = runway_homer_pair(Airdrome[Anapa] ,nil,localizedAirdromeName(terrainAirdromes[Anapa])),

[5] = runway_homer_pair(Airdrome[Mozdok] ,nil,localizedAirdromeName(terrainAirdromes[Mozdok])),

[6] = runway_homer_pair(Airdrome[Nalchick] ,nil,localizedAirdromeName(terrainAirdromes[Nalchick])),

[7] = runway_homer_pair(Airdrome[MinVody] ,nil,localizedAirdromeName(terrainAirdromes[MinVody])),

[8] = {

[ADF_HOMER_FAR] = NDB(beacons["Кисловодск"]),

[ADF_HOMER_NEAR] = NDB(beacons["Передовая"])

}

}

 

 

 

Does somebody have all the scripts for every Airport-NDB?

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JG14_Smil

JG14_Smil

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thanks for replying -Mop- (is that an old Warbirds handle?)

 

I don't know yet.. I am learning. Will need help from people that can read crylic.

 

 

I think we are both the same in our ark.lua files, I edited a volume level as a test. I colored the fonts for examples.


Edited by JG14_Smil
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seikdel

seikdel

Posted
Posted

Has anyone had any luck with the ADF recently? I remember it working correctly in the past, but now it points in seemingly random directions. The ark.lua appears normal, but this thing won't guide me home even if I beg.

 

Should this go into a bug report?

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JG14_Smil

JG14_Smil

Posted
Posted (edited)

I just tried an IFR XC flight from Anapa to Krymsk with the moving map disabled, using only the ADF signal for navigation (for landing). I used limited fuel and failed the mission, but only because I screwed up and forgot which NDB I was tuned to. I rode outbound instead of inbound in the zero zero visiblity. I was starting to figure out my mistake when fuel ran out. Good thing it was sim hours or my cockpit would have been wrecked already :)

 

I think it is doable with practice. Need a cross reference when riding the NDB beam and that Inner beacon would help a lot. WIll try an estimated NDB signal from another known airfield for backup.

 

I was able to tune to Krymsk from Anapa airfield, and I don't think that should happen as there are hills in between.


Edited by JG14_Smil
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Mikoyan89

Mikoyan89

Posted
Posted
......

I was able to tune to Krymsk from Anapa airfield, and I don't think that should happen as there are hills in between.

 

From the DCS:BS Manual:

"ADF operating parameters:

Frequency range from 150 to 1750 kHz...."

 

So they are low frequency and medium freq. waves and they follow the curvature of the earth.

YouTube

 

Blog

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Rongor

Rongor

Posted
Posted
The Inner beacon does not affect the RMI needle, but it does send the proper morse code signals.
These are two completely different things. Marker beacons like the Inner Marker don't affect RMI bearings as they are not NDBs. Marker beacons point from the ground 90 degrees up in the sky and transmit on 75 MHz. Your marker receiver gives you their morse output --- .-.-.- or ... to identify outer, middle or inner marker. You can't do areal navigation with that. They are only receivable in a small cone upwards to give you a clue how distant the threshold of the runway you are approaching is.

NDBs are the navigational beacons in the LF and MF bands that have to entered by frequency into the receiver and then produce a bearing on your RMI...

Of course, NDBs are not seldom colocated with marker beacons, to help you finding the extended runway centerline when appoaching the NDB located beneath the approach path.

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JG14_Smil

JG14_Smil

Posted
Posted

That's great info, thank you. I learned the difference between ILS and NDB's well enough to earn a PPL back in the day.

 

So, what you are saying is the entire deal of ADF and NDB use, in the KA-50, is incorrect in the BS2 manual? This is all I am going by - the sim and the manual here.

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Rongor

Rongor

Posted
Posted

I must agree with USMC_Trev, mixing markers with an RMI is a remarkable fail for a licensed guy.:music_whistling:;)

But please no hard feelings, this is not about playing the smart arse, the confusion around many people across this board concerning avionics and radio navigation is too serious to not use every chance to clear things up for everyone. Nothing personal.:thumbup:

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Rongor

Rongor

Posted
Posted

After checking the according pages in the BS2 manual 10-16 to 10-22 I must admit, the text is inviting to mix up markers and beacons since outer and inner beacons are used there (what a mess and waste of frequencies).

So what we are dealing with here are in fact no marker beacons but a double team of two NDBs in line with the runway centerline. The confusion is generated by the manual calling them "inner" and "outer". In fact they are positioned this way, the one more distant from the threshold than the other.

NDBs guiding the approach path normaly are called locator beacons and often co-located with the outer marker beacon. It is usual to have the middle marker as the next marker beacon closing in and the inner marker in the short final. Inner marker is very rare at civilian airports.

I assume in Anapa there aren't any marker beacons, but an outer and an inner locator beacon, simply called NDB by the DCS Manual.

JG14_Smil, I hope this settles the confusion between our postings...

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-Mop-

-Mop-

Posted
Posted

After checking the manual in its german translation, there arent any circumstances to understand something wrong... i think ;-)

 

thx for all advices between the differences of markers and beacons... i appreciate that because it hasnt been clear to me either... but the core problem is that the NDBs in extension of the runways direction cant be guided to, because of the fact that after choosing the correct adf channel for the airport the RMI-needle points everywhere but not into the direction of the outer NDB (when NDB selection is on automatic)...

 

So did i understand all of ur explanaitions wrong or does it simply not work in this simulation?

 

(btw are there markers that can be used in some way in this simulation... if yes, how?)

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seikdel

seikdel

Posted
Posted

Aha! I finally figured it out last night!

I'm using Devrim's upgraded HD pit, and I spent half an hour flipping the stupid ARK rotary before I realized that the little white dot on the rotary is on the wrong side.

 

*facepalm*

 

I don't know if it's correct in the standard pit, but in the Devrim one the white dot is painted on the side of the rotary opposite the active number. I'll contact him about it.

 

That being said, once I figured that out, the thing worked great!

 

Is there any way to pick up on the marker tones in the Shark? I know you hear them in FC3, but I'm not aware of how to do this on the Ka-50.

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JG14_Smil

JG14_Smil

Posted
Posted (edited)

Compass/ANT switch on your ARK panel. ANT to hear the tone (also set inner/outer beacon switch), Compass for RMI needle. White tick mark is OK in default cockpit. I love being able to use the ADF! Next step is to get the R-800 ADF tuner to track a NDB.


Edited by JG14_Smil
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seikdel

seikdel

Posted
Posted

I guess what I was asking was if there is a way to automatically hear the inner and outer marker tones when you fly over them a la fixed wing.

 

And holy cow! I just flew an ADF-only approach to Krymsk in pea soup at night. Scariest thing I've ever done! What threw me off was that I didn't have a motion vector (>50km/h), so I was flying at oblique angles for much of the time. Hard to chase a beacon down when you can't tell if you're flying straight!

 

Finally made it on the ground, though. Quite the experience!

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