AI going to be fixed?

[COMThing]

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum.

 

I bought this game thinking it would be the best simulator I've used, which it is until you look at the AI, if you can possibly call it that. I have read through a lot of these threads and I have encountered a lot of the problems other people have, most notably excessive use of afterburner leading to low fuel in fighters and aircraft jettisoning all air to ground weapons the moment a missile is launched and therefore ruining some basic missions.

 

When I look at other sims especially fairly basic ones like F/A-18 Korea I begin to wonder why the AI is virtually non-existant in this game considering that in 1997 the AI of F/A-18 Korea was able to do tasks better than in DCS. Simple things like not afterburning to a target were implemented. In Enemy Engaged helicopter AI was clearly well thought out with helicopters hiding behind trees and popping up briefly to attack. Although I wouldn't expect helicopters to be that good in a jet game I do expect the same quality of AI jet aircraft in a jet game.

 

A good simulator needs to have competent AI to the point of not doing ridiculously stupid things such as using afterburner for almost everything, dropping all weapons at the first sign of danger etc

 

 

TL;DR - The AI in this game is non-existant in most aspects; a good sim needs a well thought out environment including the behavioral aspect. Other Sims have good AI so why doesn't this one?

 

My question; Is there going to be an update for the AI, to at least stop them using afterburner excessively and dropping their weapons at the first sign of danger?

 

According to a lot of the threads this problem has been consistent through out the Lock On and DCS series and should be fixed

[EtherealN]

If the mission dictates a speed to the next waypoint that the AI plane can only achieve with AB, it will use AB. If the speed is slower, it won't use AB.

 

Dropping A2G munitions when attacked is fairly SOP. When you have a guided weapon heading your way you should try to survive, and having draggy and heavy weapons will diminish this capability.

 

Similarly, mission designers have a lot of options to set rules for AI behaviour within the editor, pretty much ranging from Rambo to Chicken.

 

That said, yes, it isn't perfect, but there are a lot of improvements in place in DCS A:10C, but you have to use them. :)

[winz]

If the mission dictates a speed to the next waypoint that the AI plane can only achieve with AB, it will use AB. If the speed is slower, it won't use AB.

This is not the problem. The problem is that when an AI cap detects enemies, it will rush to them with full AB, no matter how far were they detected.

[COMThing]

I was testing my mission just before and encountered something I haven't seen on the forums:

 

An F-15C, after landing and taxiing, had missed it's parking spot within a hangar and was trying to get in through a corner by using afterburner :( :lol:

(I can't decide whether to laugh or worry that the AI really is non-existent, after all, it had done it's job)

[EtherealN]

This is not the problem. The problem is that when an AI cap detects enemies, it will rush to them with full AB, no matter how far were they detected.

 

That's what I'm saying about setting rules for AI behaviour. I'm not the ME expert, but this is (IMO) similar to the issue with bating SAM sites until they're out of ammo - you can set it all up such that they will not react until some conditions are set. For a SAM site this can be that the threat is within X KM. (And you can have different conditions for different threats.) You should be able to set up something similar for AI CAP flights. (But again, I'm not the ME expert.)

 

So essentially, you could set it up to only react if the detected enemy is in a specific area, etcetera. The way to do it would essentially be to have a trigger or triggers covering the CAP area to be covered, and change mode on the AI flight depending on conditions. So until the condition of Flight Is Within X KM it will be set passive and just continue it's flight, for example.

 

It is a deficiency and it would be nice to have more capable AI, and work is being done there, but there are workarounds.

[COMThing]

Thanks for the quick replies :D

[andqui]

I agree- for me, all I can do in Warthog is fly around alone and shoot some stuff, like some sort of glorified FSX. The comically terrible AI ruins what has the potential to be something great, as well one of the best flight models I've ever seen.

[Haukka81]

+1

 

AI really need's more work. Sead flight jettisoning all weapons when sam's go hot is no good :(

[Grimes]

Its mostly a question of AI default behavior. In DCS it takes a fair bit of adjusting behavior parameters, waypoints, and even weapons to get the desired result. The AI in general do seem to be missing an "efficiency" paramter where they tend to have rather aggressive behavior. When they throw caution to the wind and go full burner at that Mig that is 90 km away or start doing massive evasive maneuvers against a threat they could easily defeat if they just kept their planned flight path.

[AeroOrange]

(hoping everyone takes this as sincere venting... not flame bait)

 

Honestly its way too much - and its (e.g. AI) way too incomplete. I am disappointed to hear testers, moderators selling out in a PR patronization ploy instead of fessing up to what really exists in the game as defaults... The AI is PATHETIC.

 

AI should not be this erratic out of the box. Maybe if it was only at a state where small adjustments were necessary to be made - yes - if you are an enthusiasts - but come on....

 

When my wingman can launch out of hanger from a cold start in less than five seconds and explode (after landing and parking while I takeoff for a second time) all BY DEFAULT - its an issue. He got it right the first time btw, on the initial take off. Clearly an AI BUG. Regardless of what orders I give him, this is unacceptable at all levels of gaming interest - its juvenile.

 

I love the game too, tweaked it, got it working with every workaround under the sun - and without those - its less than average as far as games go.

 

...this is not the only place I see AI truly lacking; others include what is stated here, plus much more... its a huge disappointment in the product overall to be honest.

 

I guess if you are a MP junkie the game is superb -and that must be everyone on this forum - because in SP its less than par; it has no "gaming" substance what so ever aside for flying around shooting things and dreaming what could be... and very few MP environment are actually worth it as well... probably because of the labor it take to get the optimal stage tuned.

 

I even profoundly get the conditional trigger system - I just wish the AI would beckon the call of what such a conditional trigger system could really offer if realized through a somewhat proper, baked, AI. It seems the only way to make sense of the AI is to use the Trigger system to coerce behavior - but this is a struggle due to the lack of AI i the first place - its a nasty conundrum if you like to be in the ME a lot.

 

The product is still "beta". I'll pay for it again, but I'll also take my right to comment on it as well... and not be put down, told how to submit a ticket and demeaned just for being a faithful well intended customer with a concern.

Edited September 16, 2011 by AeroOrange

[AeroOrange]

I agree- for me, all I can do in Warthog is fly around alone and shoot some stuff, like some sort of glorified FSX. The comically terrible AI ruins what has the potential to be something great, as well one of the best flight models I've ever seen.

 

 

Could not agree more... great game - best since Graphsims F/A-18 15 years ago. AI was better then in that game, obvviously the graphics / physical realism was lacking.

Edited September 16, 2011 by AeroOrange

[159th_Viper]

....BY DEFAULT - its an issue. He got it right the first time, on the initial take off. Clearly an AI BUG.

 

The AI is PATHETIC.....

 

:furious: indeed.

 

If you have an issue - report it:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=59946

 

If you have criticism, make sure it's constructive. This forum is not a platform for discontent - nobody gains anything from a rant or a moan, least of all you ;)

[AeroOrange]

:furious: indeed.

 

If you have an issue - report it:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=59946

 

If you have criticism, make sure it's constructive. This forum is not a platform for discontent - nobody gains anything from a rant or a moan, least of all you ;)

 

forums are exactly the place for discussing "discontent" in all ways, no?. and if emoticons are to be banned, then ban them after burning the books, and prosecuting me for face crime. Orwell would be rolling over in his grave.

Edited September 16, 2011 by AeroOrange

[159th_Viper]

forums are exactly the place for discussing "discontent" in all ways, no?.....

 

No.

 

I'll spell it out for you:

 

Keep it Constructive or Keep it Silent

 

For further clarification, see the rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en

 

You are a guest here - kindly abide by them. Now, as regards to the reporting of issues, see my above post #12.

 

Ta

[AeroOrange]

I have reported many over the past year, thank you.

[COMThing]

@original AeroOrange post good post :D

 

I've probably mentioned it already but there are a huge number of games that have far better AI. If those games worked on Win7 then I would probably not even use this game for the lack of SP basics.

[Ptroinks]

Hear, hear! The AI was the reason I stopped playing this sim. I just got too tired of having to hand-hold every AI unit for every mundane task they were given. I don't know how ground units behave after 1.1.1.0, but the last time I tried creating a mission, tanks were pretty much unable to cross railroad tracks. I would call the AI in DCS pre-alpha...

[Bushmanni]

Could not agree more... great game - best since Graphsims F/A-18 15 years ago. AI was better then in that game, obvviously the graphics / physical realism was lacking.

 

Your memory is doing tricks to you. AI in Graphsims Hornet series is quite crappy even by it's own age groups standards. At least for me the AI planes routinely flew into earth and were very ineffective at everything they were doing. Granted AI in DCS needs serious work but I hope it's going to be something not like in Hornet Korea.

[Haukka81]

Your memory is doing tricks to you. AI in Graphsims Hornet series is quite crappy even by it's own age groups standards. At least for me the AI planes routinely flew into earth and were very ineffective at everything they were doing. Granted AI in DCS needs serious work but I hope it's going to be something not like in Hornet Korea.

 

 

100% right, dcs ai is quite nice now. My wingmen stays way better alive than before etc..

 

 

And ground units are getting better and better too :thumbup:

 

SP is very enjoyable now.

 

 

-haukka81

[Teamasian]

No, because ED likes to make money, not a sim. Its literally been 9 years since this thread was made, and they have still allowed AI to burn fuel and make endless vertical loops.