Greasing up the Warthog

[tietze]

I few weeks ago I stumbled on the "Inside view of TM HOTAS Warthog"-thread and read with interest about hairiness of balls and the stick's sticktion-stucktion-stickiness and different proposed solutions. Overall I've been quite happy with the stick, but being one of those claiming that the movement could be smoother I was not completely happy. In relation to that I readily admit that I might be quite picky about the smoothness.

 

The stick provides good tactile feedback around the center, so I would rather avoid the proposed solution of removing the big spring and space-wise there is unfortunately no room for the garden hose neck extension. Instead I opted for the re-greasing solution proposed by Callsign.Vega. Below is a description of how I got the stick smooth using the Molykote EM-30L grease:

 

Encouraged by Callsign.Vega's post and 59th_Bird's positive experiences. I moved on to contact Thrustmaster support to find out whether it would void warranty to open up and re-grease the stick. To my surprise this was not the case as long as the grease was intended for metal & plastic and I didn't break anything in the process:

 

Opening the device to lubricate it will not void the warranty as long as any possible damage that you might encounter latter on is not a direct consequence of your action, is not generated by a mishandle of the components of the joystick when you have opened it and then reassembled it.

 

The lubricant has to be both plastic and metal friendly as well.

 

While it can become hairy to argue about the directness of consequences of action, I overall saw this as an encouragement. It's probably connected with the craving for disassembling and fiddling with all kinds of gizmos. I ordered the Molykote EM-30L on ebay.

 

After receiving the grease I opened up the stick. While the initial parts opening the stick is well-documented by previous pictures and video, I have not found any guides detailing how the last part with the ball-joint is disassembled.

 

Joe Keefe on simHQ mentions that he "... was unable to separate the two parts of the ball joint". Being careful and taking note of earlier mistakes involving the soldering iron [also see post 12 below], it took me some time to figure out how to disassemble the last axis. The procedure is to remove the two round parts that are visible on the plastic ball-joint:

 

I used a 3mm Allen key to push them out from inside. It requires quite some force, so if attempting this please be careful. Here is a picture of the inner part of the ball joint with the two round parts pushed out from inside the joint (the metal visible is just part of the base, for fixating the ball when disassembling):

 

And this is the inner part of the ball-joint (cleaned):

 

Both of the two small plastic gizmo's have a small square on the upper side one should be aware of when assembling the joint again:

 

After disassembly I cleaned all the grease of the plastic-parts with mild soap and water [also see post 9 below] - it took quite a while! Re-greasing them with the Molykote grease didn't take quite as long. When minding the wires as described in the thread about assembly everything slid into place!

 

To my big surprise the new grease really has made a difference - smoother movement when starting and stopping motion are now much easier. The interesting part is how long this will last and whether the stick needs to be re-greased on a regular basis (hopefully this will not be the case).

 

Happy flying!

 

Edited November 1, 2012 by tietze
Oops! attachments disappeared... & Clarifying. Updated link.

[Supersheep]

I haven't had the balls to grease mine, but your guide just have changed that.

But I think you need to re-grease the integration of your pictures.

 

 

Now, as this slope seems slippery to me, I'll shut up now xD

 

 

Thank you!

Supersheep

[Frazer]

Great!

 

My stick is still in the closet, so I will try this when I have some time. I would really love to fly with the stick if it does what it supposed to be doing, being super smooth and precise! ;)

[tietze]

It takes some effort to get the old grease off, but the new grease has contributed to making it smooth. I really hope this will be a lasting solution.

 

:joystick:

[Fuzzysham]

Thanks for the guide. I think I'm going to risk it and do this to my Warthog. Anything mechanical, I am extremely hesitant to mess with. How much of that grease should I order? I don't want to get more than I'll need, do you think 1oz would be enough or should I go with 2oz?

 

If this works, that is one problem solved with my Warthog. Now I need to figure out how to reduce the center play that the joystick has.

[tietze]

I would say that 1oz is more than enough. After applying the grease I have come to be less aware of the centerplay (which I am cancelling out with a deadzone of 5 for both axes in DCS axis adjustment). It is definitely not gone but maybe less noticeable with the smoother movement.

[Fuzzysham]

Well I got the grease today. I am having second thoughts on attempting this. Trying to clean off the current grease using soap and water and having those fragile little wires nearby makes me more than a little hesitant.

 

What don't you grease inside? Obviously nothing electronic. I took my stick apart and the grease was almost all dried so it was hard to tell what had grease and what didn't. I know the spring and ball had grease. Anything else?

 

I'll play around with the new patch a little. It would suck for me to screw up the stick and not get to check out the patch.

[galagamo]

It works pretty well, and I wouldn't worry, the grease is non conductive.

I accidentally covered my hall sensor with the stuff, and it still works.

You shouldnt be scared to do it if you've already disassembled the base, that's the second hardest part of the process, right after putting it back together.

Thanks for the illustrated guide tietze much appreciated and rep'd

[tietze]

Well I got the grease today. I am having second thoughts on attempting this. Trying to clean off the current grease using soap and water and having those fragile little wires nearby makes me more than a little hesitant.

 

I understand that - maybe a lot of kitchen/ toilet paper, moist cloth and rubbing would be a more appropriate description of the procedure. First removing most of the grease with paper. Then using soap on cloth. Finally using one moist cloth and paper to remove the soap. I would have preferred to put it under water and wash it, but I did not disconnect all the wires, as it required to desolder one of the wires on the small circuit board.

 

What don't you grease inside? Obviously nothing electronic. I took my stick apart and the grease was almost all dried so it was hard to tell what had grease and what didn't. I know the spring and ball had grease. Anything else?

 

I removed the grease from everything except the spring as it seems quite separated from the joints, so I did not re-grease the spring.

 

I did only grease up the inside and outside of the ball-joint and the two small gizmos that are part of the ball-joint. I tried not to grease anything else, not because I think it would break anything, but to avoid making a mess with the grease.

 

One thing that might pose a problem is to grease the rubber-ring. I don't know how it will react over time.

Edited November 11, 2011 by tietze
clarification

[TAIPAN_]

Well I got the grease today. I am having second thoughts on attempting this. Trying to clean off the current grease using soap and water and having those fragile little wires nearby makes me more than a little hesitant.

 

What don't you grease inside? Obviously nothing electronic. I took my stick apart and the grease was almost all dried so it was hard to tell what had grease and what didn't. I know the spring and ball had grease. Anything else?

 

I'll play around with the new patch a little. It would suck for me to screw up the stick and not get to check out the patch.

 

Hi Fuzzsham

 

I felt the same way, so I only wiped the old grease off with a rag and didn't take water anywhere near it.

 

Then I put loads of grease in the joint, ball, spring, and the 4 posts with little springs, and the top of the ball that touches against where the stick exits.

 

It is a big improvement. Dont worry you don't need to be so thorough just do what you are comfortable with and be careful not to pinch the wire.

[Haggart]

Hey,

sorry to mention something kinda offtopic, but tietze, did you wrote your college exam or something similar shortly? I'm wondering (and somewhat impressed) because of your massive use of cross references and sub notes... if only my papers would look that way ;)

[Fuzzysham]

Ok, well my attempt went very wrong but ultimately ended in success.

 

Everything was going well; I ungreased everything and it took me hours because I wanted all of the original stuff gone. I fell asleep with all the parts in my hands and around me, I basically passed out, this was in the wee hours of the morning.

 

I was woken up by the maids around 9am, they are very loud. So I started regreasing. Everything was going well until I tried to put the wires back through that rotating piece. It just wouldn't go in. That's where the problem started. I noticed three wires broke. My heart sunk. I was well aware of how fragile they are and thought I was being super careful. Guess not.

 

After the mishap with the wires, I immediately called a relative who runs a company and has many skilled guys that work with wires so small they need a microscope. I floored it over to his office and one of the guys started to fix the wires. He basically didn't attempt to attach the three broken ends to each other due to the nature of where the break was. So he found some wire laying around and basically made an extension to the broken ones. It is not a pretty repair but it works, I tested it. I just hope it lasts.

 

After the wires were fixed I continued greasing everything. I made sure everything was nice and tight and aligned properly. I eventually got it all back together.

 

The stick feels very stiff again, like new. The center play is greatly reduced and it does feel smoother. I have not had a chance to test it in game yet as I am still at his office but I tested with TARGET device analyzer on my laptop and it looks to work fine. Air to air refueling will be the ultimate test.

 

I screwed up big time on this one. I had a bad feeling from the start. I have a sneaking suspicion the fixed wires won't hold forever. He twisted the wire(s) then soldered them and then wrapped some electrical tape around them. Was a tight fit considering three wires had to fit through that ball thingy. How bummed I am. At least it's all working for now.

 

No more modding for me. Ever. I've learned my lesson.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Fuzzysham

[TAIPAN_]

That's a scary story.

 

I'm hoping my grease will last I don't like opening it too often either especially after reading that!!

[Fuzzysham]

That's a scary story.

 

I'm hoping my grease will last I don't like opening it too often either especially after reading that!!

 

I wouldn't worry. Just be very very very cautious around the wires. I kept fiddling with that inner ball thing. I wasn't happy with the grease on it. It didn't look like there was enough grease so I just kept adding more and thus messing with the wires. Just make sure you do not pinch the wires when putting the top ball/rotator thing back on. That's what I did.

 

I just got off a game that last about 50 minutes. Stick is MUCH better feeling. Less sticky movements. Still there somewhat but not nearly as noticeable. I was able to fly again. It is much stiffer now. I don't know why it's like that because I doubt grease would affect that. All in all it's worth it as long as you are super careful.

[Frazer]

You just need to pull the wires up a bit when fitting the ball back on again. Just be careful and don't push it too hard when you feel resistance.

[Fuzzysham]

You just need to pull the wires up a bit when fitting the ball back on again. Just be careful and don't push it too hard when you feel resistance.

 

Yep, what he said. I did exactly the opposite of his suggestion, I pushed too hard.:doh:

 

So I've been playing hours tonight since I had it fixed. The lubrication really did make a big difference. I am surprised it worked this well. Oh how I hope it lasts a long time.

[tietze]

Hey,

sorry to mention something kinda offtopic, but tietze, did you wrote your college exam or something similar shortly? I'm wondering (and somewhat impressed) because of your massive use of cross references and sub notes... if only my papers would look that way ;)

 

Haha - and sorry I forgot to reply to you! While not any exams lately I do write some academic texts. I guess the primary reason for all the links and notes here is that I just like to refer and point to other bits of interest. There are so many resources available in the posts here at the forum. While one should not underestimate the function of writing the same again, I just try to make visible what is already available here - and making it available again by linking and referencing to the sometimes rather lengthy threads! :-)

[PlainSight]

So i've done a little digging and i think the source of stiction is the rubbing between plastic edge of the joint and RUBBER seal of the spring-pressed cover on it. I believe if you can remove the rubber seal, the friction between the joint edge and cover will be greaty reduced because the plastic wont stick to metal as much as it sticks to rubber when not moving

[tietze]

I have just found it necessary to reapply some grease as I felt the stick was moving unevenly. Now it is smooth again :-)

 

(I hope it is not necessary to reapply grease that often)

 

So i've done a little digging and i think the source of stiction is the rubbing between plastic edge of the joint and RUBBER seal of the spring-pressed cover on it. I believe if you can remove the rubber seal, the friction between the joint edge and cover will be greaty reduced because the plastic wont stick to metal as much as it sticks to rubber when not moving

 

Have you tried to do that? In my experience it helps to apply the grease mentioned above, but I am open to suggestions that has yielded results for others :-)

[PlainSight]

Of course! I cut away the rubber seal and also shortened the spring, so there's less resistance and stiction. I cut away one and a half turn, so the spring gets 1 cm shorter.

[Corrigan]

BUMP! I'd love to hear some updates from people who regreased their sticks. Have you had to do it again since? How long does the grease last? Any other developments? Thanks!

[tietze]

Hi, sorry for the wait - I've been a bit away from simming, but just had a session with the stick and apparently the grease still performs :-)

[Corrigan]

Thanks, and no problem. :) Just about to try this out for myself. Wish me luck!

[Corrigan]

And, done! It was looking grim for a moment,

 

 

but I managed to get it apart. To get those plastic plugs out to separate the innermost ball joint parts, I placed a small screwdriver against them from the inside and gently tapped them out.

When everything was disassembled, I removed the grease with paper towels and soapy water, and then reapplied Molykote EM-30L grease. Putting it back together wasn't too hard.

 

So, what's the verdict? What a difference! There is no stiction at all anymore. Much much smoother. Definitely worth it.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Corrigan

[Sov13t]

From my experience, the main cause of sticktion on the Warthog is the resistance encountered on the 4 metal guide posts on which the main cylinder slides up and down. Greasing them helps, but it gets quickly pushed to the bottom or the top and sticktion returns.

 

@Frazer: Would love to hear your feedback if you do attempt to approach this more thoroughly, if I remember correctly you didn't spend much time with the Hog before you put it in the closet.