How is the new Wingman AI?

[Itkovian]

Salutations,

 

I just purchased the update but won't be able to install it until tonight, and I have a question:

 

How is the new Wingman AI behaving?

 

Or, if you prefer: are wingmen actually useful this time? :)

 

I loved Black Shark, and I mostly play single player, but one of my biggest issues was the often-useless AI. For example, the AI would never attack my target as ordered, or if they did they would rush in and get shot down.

 

So have these issues been fixed?

 

If so, what is the best way to order our wingmen to attack a specific target nowadays? Can we actually use the datalink, or are radio commands (like "attack my target" with a target locked) still the best option?

 

Thank you.

 

Itkovian

[Itkovian]

Has anyone tested this?

[Nate--IRL--]

I spent a lot of time testing the Wingman AI, it is much much better now. You can still get them killed, but there are very useful now.

 

See the changelog for improvements

 

• Helicopter AI (HAI)

o When analyzing a tactical situation, the HAI will take in account all threats, not only the target that the HAI is engaging.

 

o If it's possible to engage targets from a safe distance, the HAI will not fly close to threats.

 

o If it appears that the HAI is not at a safe position, for example too close to enemy air defenses, the HAI will fly away from the threat(s) and then start engaging targets from safe a distance.

 

o If it appears impossible to engage targets from safe distance, the HAI will make only one short attack (one missile launch / rocket salvo or cannon burst per run) from maximum range of that weapon and then break away to make a new attack if required. This reduces fire effectiveness, but greatly increases HAI survival when engaging targets with cannon or rockets.

 

o HAI will not hover in an unsafe location.

 

o If high-priority targets are screened by low-priority targets that make it impossible to attack high-priority targets from safe distance, the HAI will attack low-priority targets first to break the screen. In other words, if you have line of enemy APCs and tanks at 4 km and enemy AAA and SAMs at 12 km, the HAI will engage those APCs and tanks first. No more flying over the enemies' heads.

 

o Jinking defensive maneuvering has been added. When flying in the WEZ of AAA, tanks, and APCs, the HAI will fly at high speed and jink. Of course, HAI will not jink when aiming at a target.

 

Nate

[Itkovian]

I saw the changelog... but it does not really address my point:

 

- Will the AI actually attack my target when it is ordered to?

 

- What is the best way, now, to order your AI wingmen to attack a target?

 

Remember, in BS1 the AI wingmen would FREQUENTLY refuse to attack anything unless you gave them the broadest order (at which point they'd go kill themselves *grin*). If you locked a target and said "attack my target", most of the time the wingman would reply "unable".

 

It was a bug, and a very well known one that was quite frustrating.

 

Secondly, it was also known that the best way to order a wingman to attack was through radio commands, not the datalink.

 

So now, I am wondering if using the datalink to tell my wingmen to attack a specific target works, if using the radio commands ALSO still works, and if the AI wingmen are now willing to actually listen to orders. :)

 

These points were not addressed in the changelog, though I assume they were fixed. I am simply hoping for a confirmation as I am very unlikely to get to test that anytime soon (for one thing, I need to remember how to fly the bloody thing again *grin*).

 

Thank you,

 

Itkovian

[Itkovian]

Oh, my apologies, I did not notice your first sentence, that the AI works much better. I thought you had just decided to copy/paste the changelog. :)

 

Still, does that mean that wingmen will actually attack targets now? And does using the datalink work?

 

Thank you.

 

Itkovian

[Nate--IRL--]

Yes Datalink works well, or you can simply lock a target and order him to attack it. However the Best command now is attack ground targets. When given this command the Wingy will first kill any AA he knows about (Note:- The Wingy can still be surprised by units behind terrain!) The proceed to Heavy armour, the light armour.

 

But wait for other responses, as I'm hardly impartial :)

 

Nate

[Itkovian]

Yes Datalink works well, or you can simply lock a target and order him to attack it. However the Best command now is attack ground targets. When given this command the Wingy will first kill any AA he knows about (Note:- The Wingy can still be surprised by units behind terrain!) The proceed to Heavy armour, the light armour.

 

Nate

 

Oh excellent.

 

Thogh I prefer to keep a tight leash on my minions, especially on missions where you need to really smash enemy formations and every Vikhr counts. :)

 

But good, this is excellent news. There was NOTHING (in the sim) as frustrating as making your way to the attack point, only to get nothing but "Unable" from your wingmen (the only thing that allowed me to finish the oil war campaign was the realization that "Cover me" actually still worked, and made the wingmen at least partially useful).

 

Thank you for the info. Can't wait to get back in that beautiful office again.

 

Itkovian

[Mustur]

The AI is much much better!

 

In BS1 finishing a campaign mission with a wingman was a rare occurrence. Now they don't blindly attack that truck next to AA, or do a rocket run when they have vikhrs available.

[enigma6584]

So far I'm extremely impressed with the wingman AI. He doesn't crowd you in various formations...unless you tell him to go "tight." He goes to Datapoint you send him to and hovers there until further orders, same with target points you assign him. In battle he does not get too close to enemy anymore but rather stays at optimal distance from target when attacking depending on weapons used.

 

I've never seen him overfly target but rather break off attack and veer to one side or the other...quite impressive.:thumbup: Also, when he is attacked by AAA or Sams, he jinx's from side to side trying to avoid being killed...unless he is on his attack run...then he is concentrating on the target. Overall a huge difference in game. You actually get help from him now.

 

The ground AI is most impressive too...but alas that is another thread.

[TAIPAN_]

Itkovian - buy BS2. The wingman AI is very much improved and most importantly the do what they are told!!

 

I am re-playing the original Georgian Oil war from scratch and it is very enjoyable, I'm using my wingman to great advantage.

 

Also yes I have tested and use the "attack my target" command all the time - it works great in this version! I can direct my flight onto targets from a great distance and wipe the battlefield :)

 

They can still get killed - but it's up to you now as you can control them better if you give them good orders they will last longer.

 

I did some tweaks to some of the lua files to make the wingman even more likely to survive and defend against threats you can get it here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1325466#post1325466

 

Also recommend that you:

* ALWAYS remove rockets from your wingman in the mission planner, rocket use gets people killed in an environment with anti-aircraft threats (almost every DCS mission).

* Only send him on 1-2km Recce at a time, 5km Recce can get him killed

* Don't order him to attack after other attacks - ask him to rejoin first. This allows him to use his standoff range better.

* If giving a non-targetted order, ask him to rejoin after a couple of targets so that he gets his standoff range back.

[Святой]

Thanks to Nate--IRL--. He was an initiator and a main tester of these improvements.

[enigma6584]

I've really noticed the difference while testing my first mission in the editor. The AI is simply stunning! My hat is off to you Nate--IRL.:notworthy:

[winz]

I'll join the crowd. I'm currently playing through the deployment campaign again, and the new AI is superb so-far.

No more 'unable to attack'.

No more suicide overfly.

Smart target picking.

 

On the last mission the AI made a huge circle around the target area to find a safe spot to destroy the AA emplacement he detected. Was really impressed.

The ability to just order and not baby-sit is a huge thing for immersion.

I'm also loving the new russian voiceovers...

Excelent, excelent job Nate and ED :)