Good guide to effective CBU employment?

[Stretch]

Is there a good guide to effectively using the different cluster bomb types in the game? I often find myself guessing at RPM and HOF values, dropping a bomb, then refining my guess. This means a lot of time spent over a hot AO and a lot of wasted munitions. Wondering if there are some good tables or guides to help me get more accurate first passes at these values.

 

Likewise with CBU-97s, especially now that their behavior has been changed. Drops that used to work now result in skeets bouncing all over the place but not hitting any tanks...

[Eddie]

For 97s set HOF to 1800, no other setting required, as long as the weapons has enough height to do its thing the footprint is always the same. This will be the default in he next patch.

 

87s are a bit more of an experience based educated guess. I generally use between 1200-1800ft HOF and leave the RPM alone. That has always proven effective against all but MBTs (which the 87 isn't intended to be employed against anyway).

[159th_Viper]

Depends on your target parameters, ie size, location etc etc. Tell us what you're attempting to plink and we can tell/advise you how :)

[Stretch]

OK Viper, here are a couple examples from the last missions I flew:

 

- Three T-72s in a row, spaced about 300 feet apart. Can the CBU-97 hit all three? If not, can I drop it between two of the T-72s and have a good chance of getting both? Or do I need to drop it over exactly one tank? These are questions not answered above.

 

- Four utility trucks, in diamond arrangement, each about 200 feet from the centerpoint. If I want to drop a CBU-87 right in the center of the diamond, what settings are optimal to getting all four trucks?

[Essah]

in my limited experience, default HOF (600? ish?) is too low, overkill within the blast zone

anything above 1800 spreads too thin and doesn't kill everything in target area

1200-1800 is highly effective.

 

also the large spread makes CBU's fine to drop in CCRP, doesn't have to be pinpoint.

[159th_Viper]

- Three T-72s in a row, spaced about 300 feet apart. Can the CBU-97 hit all three? If not, can I drop it between two of the T-72s and have a good chance of getting both? Or do I need to drop it over exactly one tank? These are questions not answered above.

 

CBU-97:

 

-Tendency to drop long.

-Set SPI at first quarter of length of convoy.

-HOF set at 2200ft.

-3 kills confirmed.

 

 

Track: T-72B.trk

 

 

 

- Four utility trucks, in diamond arrangement, each about 200 feet from the centerpoint. If I want to drop a CBU-87 right in the center of the diamond, what settings are optimal to getting all four trucks?

 

CBU-87:

 

-SPI set in middle of diamond.

-HOF set at 1800ft.

-RPM set at 1000.

-4 kills confirmed.

 

 

Track: GAZ-3308.trk

[MadTommy]

As a curiosity...

 

If your 97 has a HOF setting of 1800 and you end up trying to drop it from an alt of 1500 what happens?

[159th_Viper]

As a curiosity...

 

If your 97 has a HOF setting of 1800 and you end up trying to drop it from an alt of 1500 what happens?

 

Invalid Fuzing error.

[MadTommy]

Invalid Fuzing error.

 

Cheers.

[FreeFall]

Invalid Fuzing error.

 

I've seen that error a few times. Own fault. Should watch the altimeter...

[Divide Et Impera]

RPM ?

[159th_Viper]

RPM ?

 

Desired spin setting in Revolutions Per Minute (RPM).

[Stretch]

Thanks for the insight Viper.

[159th_Viper]

No bother :)

[SUBS17]

CCRP HOF 3000ft for CBU97 5 kills BTR80.:thumbup:

Problem I've found is CCIP does not function above 3000ft, the circle thing isn't showing up.:doh: Whats max Alt for radar slice from altimeter?

[nomdeplume]

Problem I've found is CCIP does not function above 3000ft, the circle thing isn't showing up.:doh:

It won't show if the impact point is off the HUD, so are you in a steep enough dive?

 

You can also enable either 3/9- or 5-mil CR mode, which will give you a dashed reticule if the impact point is off the HUD. In this case you can press and hold the pickle button to designate the point you want to hit and then follow the steering cues to the release point.

 

Whats max Alt for radar slice from altimeter?

Not sure offhand. You can see when you lose it because the radar altitude readout will be removed from the HUD (in the lower right, above the steerpoint data block). I think it's either 3,000 or 5,000 feet. CCIP drops aren't dependent on the radar altitude though, for obvious reasons...

[SUBS17]

But the slice is how the CCIP point is calculated.

[159th_Viper]

Problem I've found is CCIP does not function above 3000ft, the circle thing isn't showing up.:doh:

 

Increase your dive angle:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1327748&postcount=86

[nomdeplume]

But the slice is how the CCIP point is calculated.

To my understanding, the impact point is calculated by taking the aircraft's current position, orientation and velocity, and tracing the path the weapon would take if it was released now until it intersects the terrain. The aircraft position comes from the EGI; the terrain elevation is taken from the map system (stored elevation data) when in DTS mode, or from the steerpoint altitude (i.e. pretend the world is an infinite plane at that particular elevation). [sits back and waits to be re-educated...]

 

All the altitudes there are MSL (or something similar). If they used height above ground level you wouldn't be able to get an accurate solution if you happened to by flying over a hill or a valley prior to your target, i.e. just about all the time.

 

The only times the system struggles to provide an accurate impact point (winds and such notwithstanding) is when the impact point is in wildly varying terrain. I think this is due to 'pipper smoothing', i.e. it doesn't jump wildly all over the place if it's tracing a path across uneven terrain. Or it may just be difficult to calculate.

 

You can make CCIP deliveries from well above the maximum altitude for the radar altimeter - so long as your dive angle is steep enough. Of course, you probably can't see what you're bombing from up there all that well, but that's nothing a cluster bomb or string of half a dozen Mk-82s can't fix. :D

[Megagoth1702]

Thanks for the insight Viper.

Yep, he's the man.

[SUBS17]

To my understanding, the impact point is calculated by taking the aircraft's current position, orientation and velocity, and tracing the path the weapon would take if it was released now until it intersects the terrain. The aircraft position comes from the EGI; the terrain elevation is taken from the map system (stored elevation data) when in DTS mode, or from the steerpoint altitude (i.e. pretend the world is an infinite plane at that particular elevation). [sits back and waits to be re-educated...]

 

All the altitudes there are MSL (or something similar). If they used height above ground level you wouldn't be able to get an accurate solution if you happened to by flying over a hill or a valley prior to your target, i.e. just about all the time.

 

The only times the system struggles to provide an accurate impact point (winds and such notwithstanding) is when the impact point is in wildly varying terrain. I think this is due to 'pipper smoothing', i.e. it doesn't jump wildly all over the place if it's tracing a path across uneven terrain. Or it may just be difficult to calculate.

 

You can make CCIP deliveries from well above the maximum altitude for the radar altimeter - so long as your dive angle is steep enough. Of course, you probably can't see what you're bombing from up there all that well, but that's nothing a cluster bomb or string of half a dozen Mk-82s can't fix. :D

 

Its taken from the RA slice as mentioned in another thread from what I recall by one of the devs. The SU25/T uses a laser range finder the A-10A/C uses the radar altimeter slice. It can't use the map system as the map does not cover the entire terrain.:music_whistling:

I know that from experience there are missions you can do where the map does not load until you are closer to the tgt area. The slice takes into account terrain.

[SUBS17]

Increase your dive angle:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1327748&postcount=86

 

I'll try that whats the highest you've used CCIP in FC I used to CCIP tanks from 20 000ft. So far I've only used CCRP for such deliverys although I'll test it further.:thumbup:

[nomdeplume]

Its taken from the RA slice as mentioned in another thread from what I recall by one of the devs. The SU25/T uses a laser range finder the A-10A/C uses the radar altimeter slice. It can't use the map system as the map does not cover the entire terrain.:music_whistling:

Any chance you could find that post, as I'd be quite interested to understand more. Using the radar altimeter to derive the altitude of your target would be extremely limiting and result in inaccurate delivery except in the rare case you're flying over complete level terrain at the same altitude as your target.

 

This post provides the best explanation I've been able to find: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1027688#post1027688

 

From this, it is possible to set the system to use the radar altitude but it's not the default setting, and seems like it'd only be useful in pretty specific scenarios: a) your EGI or other systems are broken/returning bad data, but not broken enough to prevent the IFFCC from calculating a solution b) your target is at a similar elevation to some terrain you can happen to be flying over at release time and c) you don't know the height of the target (because then you can just create a waypoint and use that for the target altitude, which makes life easier and more accurate).

[159th_Viper]

I'll try that whats the highest you've used CCIP....

 

Here's a wee bit of fun :D

 

Commenced dive from 30 000ft, engaging 12 MBT's. Dropped 4 97's and pulled out of dive at 22 000ft. Spiralled down to 13 000ft and watched the fireworks.

 

CCIP Angels 30.trk

[SUBS17]

Any chance you could find that post, as I'd be quite interested to understand more. Using the radar altimeter to derive the altitude of your target would be extremely limiting and result in inaccurate delivery except in the rare case you're flying over complete level terrain at the same altitude as your target.

 

This post provides the best explanation I've been able to find: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1027688#post1027688

 

From this, it is possible to set the system to use the radar altitude but it's not the default setting, and seems like it'd only be useful in pretty specific scenarios: a) your EGI or other systems are broken/returning bad data, but not broken enough to prevent the IFFCC from calculating a solution b) your target is at a similar elevation to some terrain you can happen to be flying over at release time and c) you don't know the height of the target (because then you can just create a waypoint and use that for the target altitude, which makes life easier and more accurate).

 

The CCIP using the slice is from a thread where we were comparing the A-10A to an SU25 and the question was raised how does the A-10A compute the CCIP? And the answer was from one of the devs the radar altimeter does a slice. Where as the SU25 uses a laser range finder to make the CCIP accurate. I'll have to read more on the C to figure out what else it can do and how the EGI is used for its weapons delivery.:book: