CDU page for fuel range?

[bluepilot76]

Oh and the only time I have run out of fuel, is because the airfield I diverted to on the TAD did not exist in the sim world! But thats another topic thats already been done to death.

[GGTharos]

Eddie, do you think landing with 3000lbs is cutting it fine? surely you could fly half way across the map with that. I mean we are not talking commercial aviation here.

 

It is cutting it fine. You have to have enough fuel to reach a divert airfield as a minimum. While this isn't typically a consideration in flight sims, it's a big deal. Also I believe (IIRC) that not all the fuel inside your tanks is useful fuel. You might be landing with 3000lbs, but you can probably only make use of 2000-2500lbs of that because the rest of the fuel just can't be siphoned out of the tanks and into the engines.

[Eddie]

Eddie, do you think landing with 3000lbs is cutting it fine?

 

It's landing with a nice healthy fuel reserve, as planned. I'm not denying it happen in the real world, but the point is you don't PLAN on it happening. And 3000lbs is only about 30 mins worth of fuel in a medium altitude orbit, even less in medium altitude cruise.

 

You can fly right across the map on internal fuel yes, but not if you're flying anything like the flight profile you'd be using during a combat mission. You need to factor in time over target, both in the loiter and combat itself as well as ensure you have the reserves needed to extend from any air threats that may appear (unless all you fly are low intensity COIN missions). On top of that you need to have enough of a fuel reserve when you do get home so that you can divert to an alternate field should the need arise AND still land with a good amount of fuel in the tanks.

 

I mean we are not talking commercial aviation here.

 

Exactly, fuel reserves and proper planning are even more important in military aviation, when you can't just land at any old airfield.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Eddie

[bluepilot76]

All very good points!

[FreeFall]

About Bingo Fuel. A couple of days ago I did read some stories of Vega 31 rescue operation, and there is an exciting story. Please read the "Tanker crew remembers A-10 rescue over Bosnia" -part:

http://www.f-117a.com/Vega31/Vega31-3.html

 

And about the expression "Bingo":

http://www.airforce-magazine.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2006/December%202006/1206vega.aspx

 

The flare lit up the whole area, and Cardoso immediately saw him.

“We are bingo, bingo, bingo. Kill the flare,” he called on the radio. This caused some confusion. To the special operations forces, bingo means “we have the objective in sight.”

However, to the fixed-wing pilots, bingo means “I only have enough gas to get back to base and must leave now.”

It confused Zelko, too, but at least the rescue forces now had a visual on him.

[Snoopy]

Can we define what calculation would need to take place. I could build into my upcoming iPhone app.

 

Tiger...I'll get some info to you when I get a chance this weekend.

 

PS...although tthe beta isn't much it looks good in the iPhone 4s retina display :D

[Lobo_63]

Some good info here re bingo/joker:

http://navyflightmanuals.tpub.com/P-367/P-3670099.htm

[bluepilot76]

Curiosity got the better to me so went into the manual to find all the tehnical graphs for flight planning. Cant see them. Are they not supplied?

[Eddie]

Curiosity got the better to me so went into the manual to find all the tehnical graphs for flight planning. Cant see them. Are they not supplied?

 

You need the A-10A flight manual, as in the real USAF A-10A flight manual.

[bluepilot76]

OK, mabe I wil just go back to glancing at the gauge every now and again. My bladder would never allow me to run out of fuel anyway!

[JorgeIII]

Remember, less fuel means a lighter plane or more ammo.

 

I always carry just enough fuel for the calculated missión time + a little extra.

Usualy I calculate the fuel for flying the mission (rute time + over target flight time) @ full power. I fly at cruise speed (fuel flow of 20) so I get something like 30% extra fuel.

 

 

Quick Fuel calculation:

 

 

At military power (aprox. fuel flow of 30) you get 1' of flight with 100 LB.

 

 

So at max power and a fuel flow of 30:

 

 

100 LB = 1 minute of flight

1000 LB = 10'

5000 LB = 50'

11000 LB + 110' or 1h 40'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

At a minimum fuel flow of 15 (just enough to keep the a-10 flying steady) yo double the time for each pound:

 

 

100 Lb = 2 minutes

1000 lb = 20'

5000 lb = 100' or 1h 30'

11000 = 220' or 2h 40'

 

 

 

Fuel flow gauges indicate the flow in 100s of Lb per engine, so a value of 30 is 3000 lb/hour/engine, so a total of 6000 LB and hour or 60', wich is the same that 100 LB every minute.

 

If you half the fuel flow to 15 you double your flight time. @ 15 fuel flow you get 2 minutes for every 100 Lb.

 

 

 

 

If yoy have 1000 lb left then you can fly 10' at military power or 20' very slow.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2013 by JorgeIII

[r813]

You might be landing with 3000lbs, but you can probably only make use of 2000-2500lbs of that because the rest of the fuel just can't be siphoned out of the tanks and into the engines.

 

I'm an avionics technician. On all the aircraft I have worked on the fuel gauges are setup to read zero when there is zero usable fuel in the tank for a normal flight attitude. There will be some fuel remaining in the tank after this which can't be pumped to the engine. So in theory the engines won't stop until that needle hits 0 on the guage.

[Sierra99]

i'm bias, but the f-16 has that page as well :) still think with the following of the falcon series it would carry over well to DCS.

 

I would think considering its roots as a training aid for the National Guard that if the functionality exists on the aircraft, we'd have it in the sim. That being said, if it's not available on the real aircraft, why would we add it to the sim?:doh:

 

Sierra

[Snoopy]

i'm bias, but the f-16 has that page as well still think with the following of the falcon series it would carry over well to DCS.

 

I guess since it's in falcon it's 100% accurate then and should be on every USAF fighter aircraft :doh:.

 

I would think considering its roots as a training aid for the National Guard that if the functionality exists on the aircraft, we'd have it in the sim. That being said, if it's not available on the real aircraft, why would we add it to the sim?:doh:

 

Sierra

 

Exactly, the CDU on the A-10C does not contain any fuel information, no page, no nothing. It is pure, old fashion mission planning. There is an entire chapter in the dash 1 on mission planning and a huge section on fuel management/planning.

[Davros23]

I guess since it's in falcon it's 100% accurate then and should be on every USAF fighter aircraft .

 

Strange thing to say...

[Irregular programming]

Strange thing to say...

 

Not at all?

[NC_Cyborg]

Here is the equation to build your app:

 

Total Fuel x 60 / (Fuel Flow Right Engine + Fuel Flow Right Engine)

 

Example:

5000 lbs - Total Fuel

1800 lbs/hr - Fuel Flow Left Engine

1800 lbs/hr - Fuel Flow Right Engine

 

Remaining Flight Time = 5000 x 60 / (1,800 + 1,800)

Remaining Flight Time = 5000 x 60 / 3,600

Remaining Flight Time = 300,000 / 3,600

Remaining Flight Time = 83.3 minutes of fuel remaining

 

I hope this helps.

[WildBillKelsoe]

there isn't need really... what I do, is set fuel flow in pph and constantly check range to airbase + 50 miles leeway. So I set a spi 150 miles (base + 50) and check time needed at current speed. If it will exceed my bingo, I set flow at lower speed. Best economy is @ 1500-1700 pph flow. But that also means you're a sitting, frozen turkey shoot. Think of it as 'loiter' fuel flow/speed setting. If things are cool on ground, I usually perform from up high (18,000ft) with it. If getting SAM's and sh!t, usually 2000-2200 pph sufficient to get more speed, but shorter vul. Of course a tanker on station is a sweet thing, specially when you know how to hook and stay hooked.