DCS = Digital Civilian Simulator ;)

[msalama]

Dear ED,

 

Please consider publishing the API and devtools for 3rd party development. How about it guys - any possibility of this ever happening?

 

That's all, thank you :)

[Demongornot]

+1

The possibility to ADD new aircraft like flyable F-16 or why not tanker too with possibility to embody boomer, AWACS or maybe why not tower control/control center

New ground vehicle, new sound, effect and so many more things and sometime really good addons and possibility for ED to integrate it officially to the simulator...

Fantastic Addons like GrandSurf airbase mods will be possible at great quantity...

Several people will try to made the AH-64, the SU-25T with clickable cockpit, the F-14 and other great aircraft with realistic avionic and flight model !

New terrain, new possibility and a lot of incredible things...

That was bad that ED don't even give us a software suit !

The simulator just will become rich with a lot of addons and sometime incredible good things !

[Ells228]

First the disclaimer - I'm not talking on behalf of ED here, I'm talking from a fellow developer point of view and over 21 years making mods for games and sims.

 

Without going into any detail, to be able to develop tools for the normal mod maker to be able to use simply is a quite a feat in itself.

 

Think about the core elements you need to get a new plane into the sim:

3d Exterior model

3d Cockpit model

Skins for both

Switches/buttons/dials/MFCD coding

 

Well the first 3 have been released in the EDM tools so at least work can be started on those (if you have 3dMax 2008).

The 4th is a tad tricky taking all that coding into a simple UI that a modder can use.

 

It's one of those tie ups between do you want the product developed and patched or do you want the tools to make your own stuff.

In this case the egg must come before the chicken, or is that the other way around :doh:

 

Demongornot, the terrain editor has been out for a very long time and half of the stuff you have written about can be done with the EDM tools.

 

I've been modding for Lockon for the past 6 years and found ED/TFC to be very very helpful if you ask the right questions and build the relationships.

 

Just my opinion of course.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Ells228

[Nate--IRL--]

I believe the OP is directing the idea of an SDK toward Professional 3rd party developers, currently disillusioned with MS Flights proposals for 3rd party development.

 

Nate

[213]

all of the fundamental stuff is possible already. just no one posts any template or example on how to do it. sometimes i'm quite bewildered as to how these people keep making custom aircrafts without a single document on how the hierarchy and pivots work. we know the porting procedure and how to use the tools. the rest is a mystery.

[msalama]

Spot on Nate, sorry for being a bit vague with my original post. Imagine this sim with quality addons like the A2A series for MSFS!

[Scoggs]

Spot on Nate, sorry for being a bit vague with my original post. Imagine this sim with quality addons like the A2A series for MSFS!

 

or the VRS Superbug...

[ec-swr]

DCS = Digital Civilian Simulator

 

: Thumbup:

 

a civil plane developed by ED would be a dream

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Agg]

To be honest, I dont think ED is going to release a full set of SDK tools. It probably would'nt be very good for business...

[sobek]

To be honest, I dont think ED is going to release a full set of SDK tools. It probably would'nt be very good for business...

 

Why not?

[Agg]

I could be wrong of course, but if they decide to release the SDK tools, there is nothing stopping third party developers from developing the exact same aircraft and scenery as ED and potentially being more successful... But as I said, I could be wrong, and personally I would love for a full set of SDK tools to be released.

[sobek]

I could be wrong of course, but if they decide to release the SDK tools, there is nothing stopping third party developers from developing the exact same aircraft and scenery as ED and potentially being more successful... But as I said, I could be wrong, and personally I would love for a full set of SDK tools to be released.

 

IIRC EDs business model includes commercial 3rd parties paying royalties, but i'm not sure if that is still up to date. The more, the merrier. ED wouldn't be giving away the source code with the SDK, so if what you say was to become reality, they could focus on continuously improving the simulation engine. Although i doubt that anybody could come up with a comparable module in the next 5 years.

[Demongornot]

To be honest, I dont think ED is going to release a full set of SDK tools. It probably would'nt be very good for business...

 

Maybe the military contract don't permit to ED to do that, but that give full set of SDK tools just will be great for business...

Incredible number of possibility and a big number of new addons and flyable plane, community ask for new effect since long time, well with that we just can do it without wait, we can too help ED for several thing, we can obtain sometime incredible thing from good modders, and imagine if extremely realistic payware addon close to original DCS quality are create by PMDG or A2A, the VRS, the Ariane Design and other, ED will just winn money every times a new payware will be released, and more possibility we have, more new people can be interesting for buy ED's sim !

Little thing create by community, like contrail rectification (actual touch the engine, its unrealistic), new smoke effect, new possibility for weather, new options or function, visual improvement...

Everything of that its just a little thing with minor importance one by one, but everything together its really different...

Its like compare a car without options with a car with the maximum of options, if the price its the same people will buy car with more options...

[Demongornot]

I could be wrong of course, but if they decide to release the SDK tools, there is nothing stopping third party developers from developing the exact same aircraft and scenery as ED and potentially being more successful... But as I said, I could be wrong, and personally I would love for a full set of SDK tools to be released.

 

No really cause SDK and any tools don't give access to source code and every hardcore aircraft made by ED are create under military contract and no one will get the permission to copy that...

Its a difference against create SDK and decide to lest the software become open source... :smilewink:

 

No one have copy Flight Simulator X (and trust me, FS are really bad and really need to be changed) same thing for X-Plane and both have release SDK.

[Agg]

No one have copy Flight Simulator X (and trust me, FS are really bad and really need to be changed) same thing for X-Plane and both have release SDK.

And there is nothing preventing developers from making aircraft on a DCS level of fidelity for FSX, just look at the PMDG 737 NGX or the VRS Superbug, I would say that they are pretty much on the same level of fidelity as the Black Shark or the Hog.

[Demongornot]

And there is nothing preventing developers from making aircraft on a DCS level of fidelity for FSX, just look at the PMDG 737 NGX or the VRS Superbug, I would say that they are pretty much on the same level of fidelity as the Black Shark or the Hog.

 

Yeah but the only way to do that its to create like VRS a full independent software who just use FSX for world render and interaction, and anyways no one need to touch the flight model or the avionic cause its great the SDK can don't authorized the access to this part of the simulator.

And if anyone will steal anything from DCS for use it for free or payware thing ED can attack them for copyright violation...

And maybe the US army too and the people who are try to do that will regret and ED never will loose money finally...

 

And VRS Superbug are really nice bug its not so realistic as the same level than DCS cause them don't have access to military data and ED work with military technical Advisor apparently for the conception of the KA-50 and the A10C...

If any realistic aircraft will copy DCS that will be faster stopped i'm pretty sure :D

[diveplane]

ahh mp mode dcs would be passenger/ co pilot/ pilot positions.

 

if u dont wanna fly simply join and click on passenger view enjoy the scenery while someone else flys.

 

:>)

Edited January 11, 2012 by diveplane

[Demongornot]

ahh mp mode dcs would be passenger/ co pilot/ pilot positions.

 

if u dont wanna fly simply join and click on passenger view enjoy the scenery while someone else flys.

 

:>)

 

Or for military aircraft be boomer in tanker (anyways expect during refueling, that not require more work than passenger :megalol: ) or be radar controller on ground station, or tower control , mission control center or radar controller inside an AWACS !

People who will create big addons for simulate wind and heat effect for adding glider :D

Or little aircraft like DR400, Piper Cub, Jodel and other light aircraft.

Imagine how that can be great with the next DCS aircraft to do real interception mission of unidentified civil aircraft (or who don't answer at radio call)

 

But not imagine all possibility with my idea here :

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84001

That can be unlimited and still realistic (and finally be more realistic)

[Speed]

I can't imagine that ED would NOT want to have a FSX-like modularity/SDK/API/etc. that would open the door up to lots of 3rd party development. ED would get a significant portion of any money made by anyone selling 3rd party aircraft/mods. It's a significant investment on ED's part to make such tools available to the public, however. Once that is done, they are sorta committed into supporting them. They start locking themselves out of how much they can change and expand the engine. They have to create mounds of documentation; they have to streamline the process as much as possible, make it as user-friendly as possible. They have to make significant changes to code all over the place just to allow things like 3rd party aircraft.

 

If I had to take a guess, I'd say a good SDK would be an even harder task than a dynamic campaign. If I had to take another guess, I would guess that ED will be slowly moving towards better support for 3rd party addons over time, just as they appear to be slowly moving towards a dynamic campaign as well. Both are big undertakings, a slow approach makes sense and is safe. As far as 3rd party support goes- has ED announced whether or not they plan to make documentation and tools publicly available for the new terrain engine once it's ready? That could add a tremendous degree of modability.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Speed

[dunadan]

I think this would be great . . . Maybe we'd finally get a high fidelity, late 50's - early 60's all out World War III sim. Strike Fighters is fun but I love the systems fidelity as well as the flight model in DCS and its hard to go back to 'lite' once you get used to it!

 

Who wouldn't love a Mig-21 intercept of a B-52 or an F-104 nuclear toss-bombing mission with DCS fidelity?

[Inseckt]

I don't totally agree with the above. One of the most important and advertised aspect of DCS, is the so called "DCS - standard", and I think this "standard" is more advanced than it may seem for others. Opening the simulator to other contributers, would surly increase the content at a faster rate, but who would "approve" any addons to be DCS-standard? We could get a plane that is advertised with AFM and "a lot" of functional avionics, but in the end, it is probably not equally advanced modeled as stock-airplane... I fear we could end up having some advanced and some less advanced addons, and I don't know how I would tell them apart.

[Jona33]

I don't totally agree with the above. One of the most important and advertised aspect of DCS, is the so called "DCS - standard", and I think this "standard" is more advanced than it may seem for others. Opening the simulator to other contributers, would surly increase the content at a faster rate, but who would "approve" any addons to be DCS-standard? We could get a plane that is advertised with AFM and "a lot" of functional avionics, but in the end, it is probably not equally advanced modeled as stock-airplane... I fear we could end up having some advanced and some less advanced addons, and I don't know how I would tell them apart.

 

I agree. Make FC3 the one that can be easily modified is my opinion. Certain parts of the game need to be off limit as well, things like weapons shouldn't be possible to modify easily or performance of stock jets to prevent people giving themselves a "superjet"

[213]

why do you care what they give themselves? it's a mod, don't want it? don't download it.

 

also, mods should be available for all dcs products. so custom aircrafts can be ported over.

 

I don't totally agree with the above. One of the most important and advertised aspect of DCS, is the so called "DCS - standard", and I think this "standard" is more advanced than it may seem for others. Opening the simulator to other contributers, would surly increase the content at a faster rate, but who would "approve" any addons to be DCS-standard? We could get a plane that is advertised with AFM and "a lot" of functional avionics, but in the end, it is probably not equally advanced modeled as stock-airplane... I fear we could end up having some advanced and some less advanced addons, and I don't know how I would tell them apart.

 

that's nice. ed isn't selling the mods. they're user made. so the "standard" obviously doesn't apply.

I can't imagine that ED would NOT want to have a FSX-like modularity/SDK/API/etc. that would open the door up to lots of 3rd party development. ED would get a significant portion of any money made by anyone selling 3rd party aircraft/mods. It's a significant investment on ED's part to make such tools available to the public, however. Once that is done, they are sorta committed into supporting them. They start locking themselves out of how much they can change and expand the engine. They have to create mounds of documentation; they have to streamline the process as much as possible, make it as user-friendly as possible. They have to make significant changes to code all over the place just to allow things like 3rd party aircraft.

 

If I had to take a guess, I'd say a good SDK would be an even harder task than a dynamic campaign. If I had to take another guess, I would guess that ED will be slowly moving towards better support for 3rd party addons over time, just as they appear to be slowly moving towards a dynamic campaign as well. Both are big undertakings, a slow approach makes sense and is safe. As far as 3rd party support goes- has ED announced whether or not they plan to make documentation and tools publicly available for the new terrain engine once it's ready? That could add a tremendous degree of modability.

 

once again, how nice. but sorry, mods are free. it's not a business. if you want to sell something, get in touch with ed so they can approve. otherwise, modding is the user's responsibility, not ed's.

 

financial benefits from modding? this isn't ea, this is ed.

Edited January 15, 2012 by 213

[Inseckt]

why do you care what they give themselves? it's a mod, don't want it? don't download it.

 

I think he is considering MP. SP is of course another matter in that regard...

 

that's nice. ed isn't selling the mods. they're user made. so the "standard" obviously doesn't apply.

 

then like Jona33 said, perhaps FC3 is more fit for such a free modding environment?

[zaelu]

I could be wrong of course, but if they decide to release the SDK tools, there is nothing stopping third party developers from developing the exact same aircraft and scenery as ED and potentially being more successful... But as I said, I could be wrong, and personally I would love for a full set of SDK tools to be released.

 

you are not wrong. they don't do it out of simple fear and need for self protection. I don't agree but I can't blame them.