Waxi Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 The AI planes seem to decelerate rather quickly after touchdown. I never manged to decelerate that fast. Even at low touchdown speeds I need a much longer distance than the AI to bring the aircraft down to taxiing speed without applying full wheel brakes. Note that when I flare the aircraft, I set the throttle to idle and fully extend the airbrakes. Without applying wheel brakes it often takes almost the whole runway to decelerate the plane to taxiing speed. Hence, I wonder whether it is normal to apply full wheel brakes after touchdown to decelerate the aircraft. Thanks for your help on this!
FreeFall Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) AI pilots are superhumans. They do whatever they want. :D I always apply full speedbrakes after touch down. Wheelbrakes only at the end. I use the whole length of the runway. Cannot compete with AI wingman, though. He can stop his plane sooo fast. Edited January 18, 2012 by FreeFall cannot read...
RogueRunner Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 If you use the whole runway you are too fast over the fence or still very very heavy. With the price of ammunition these days do not expect a warning shot.
FreeFall Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 If you use the whole runway you are too fast over the fence or still very very heavy. He said: Without applying wheel brakes it often takes almost the whole runway Without wheel brakes. Sounds pretty normal to me.
Gate-5 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Since theres anti-skid id say its best to apply full wheel breaks right after all wheels are on the ground. I also think the AI has some superpowers, since my wingman can lift off earlier and steeper than me (at least during the first 20sec) during takeoff.
sobek Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 The AI planes seem to decelerate rather quickly after touchdown. I never manged to decelerate that fast. The AI uses a simplified flight model because it wouldn't be able to handle the advanced one. One of the sideeffects is the greatly reduced rollout length. Even at low touchdown speeds I need a much longer distance than the AI to bring the aircraft down to taxiing speed without applying full wheel brakes. Note that when I flare the aircraft, I set the throttle to idle and fully extend the airbrakes. Sidenote: The airbrakes can not be fully extended until you have weight on wheels. If you aren't extending them some more after touchdown, you are giving away some brake performance. Hence, I wonder whether it is normal to apply full wheel brakes after touchdown to decelerate the aircraft. It certainly is not. You should only use the brakes as little as needed to decelerate to taxiing speed. Any more and you will unnecessarily shorten their service life (the more energy the brakes get to turn into heat, the worse). Don't worry about stopping as fast as the AI does, rather focus on using the whole runway to decelerate and you should be fine. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
ralfidude Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Ai have been coded with the simple flight techniques, since they dont handle the flight physics as well as we do, hence they can do things that we cannot. I have seen someone tell me that you should not apply full breaks right away, kind of itch your way foreward on the breaks. [sIGPIC]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/ralfidude/redofullalmost_zpsa942f3fe.gif[/sIGPIC]
Svend_Dellepude Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I start applying wheelbrakes below 60, but never full brakes cus the antiskid system apparently starts flickering when you apply full brakes. So apply brakes a little at the time and you will find that the distance is reduced. Bring up that stick overview-thing (RCTRL ENTER) and see what happens when you apply full brakes, and then try to find the sweet spot. Different speeds has different sweet spots. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD.
Snoopy Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I asked this question to our pilots a few months back and both that I asked said the same thing... - As soon as you touchdown speed brakes full open - Use the ENTIRE runway to slow to taxi speed - Use wheelbrakes as needed as you approach the end of the runway. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
Waxi Posted January 18, 2012 Author Posted January 18, 2012 Thanks for your opinions on this. I always suspected that there are different rules for the AI ;-)
Eddie Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Since theres anti-skid id say its best to apply full wheel breaks right after all wheels are on the ground. The exact opposite is true in fact. You should only apply the wheel brakes for short periods, and only if needed. A perfect landing shouldn't need them at all, unless you are landing heavy. Providing you are landing at a reasonably low gross weight it's quite normal to not touch the wheel brakes and still have to actually apply power to taxi to the end of the runway. And normal procedure would be to use the full length of the runway, not try and get off at the first taxiway.
WarthogSmurf Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Well braking at maxium power kinda gives this effect http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1dv_y_3EK0 Also i have been told by some techs at the airport that maxium braking will blow the tires at bigger chance and then have to be replaced everytime after emercy brake / max brakes. oh this is a better one at 1:36
sobek Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Since theres anti-skid id say its best to apply full wheel breaks right after all wheels are on the ground. That would be like saying because your car has ABS, every time you hit the brakes you should hit them as hard as you can. See how your tires like that. And your brakes. And your passengers. :) Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Tailgate Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I noticed if there is a strong headwind and I apply full airbrakes on touchdown, I've had to struggle to keep the tail from dragging. I believe the initial flare was not more than 10 degrees. Is this normal physics behavior? I'm guessing if the CG it is toward the rear (engines), it may be normal. I'll try to post a track next time.
MagnumHB Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I noticed if there is a strong headwind and I apply full airbrakes on touchdown, I've had to struggle to keep the tail from dragging. I believe the initial flare was not more than 10 degrees. Is this normal physics behavior? I'm guessing if the CG it is toward the rear (engines), it may be normal. I'll try to post a track next time. I've noticed this as well since 1.1.1.1. I'm guessing it might have something to do with the "general fine tune of weight distribution" mentioned in the patch notes.
GGTharos Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Yes, the AI cheats (in most games the AI cheats. It would be too difficult to make them fly by our rules - where 'too difficult' pretty much means time spent on making it happen without any real benefit). As hinted or indicated by other posters, you should aerobrake until you reach the end of the runway. Using the wheel brakes can cause them to heat up too much, and then the tyres would detonate some time after you park the aircraft. You can't take off again becuase they'll detonate in the wheel wells. These fly apart with enough force to cut a man in half and scatter the remains. Although such things are not modeled in the sim, and your brakes will not overheat, it is not a bad idea to strive to do things 'the right way' :) Thanks for your opinions on this. I always suspected that there are different rules for the AI ;-) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Snoopy Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 You would be surprised how much the brakes heat up just in normal braking. One of the first items we have to check when recovering a jet is for hot brakes. ACFT tires are made so the should (key word being should) deflate themselves if they overheat but that doesn't always happen. If an A-10 main or nose tire blows and your not directly in front or rear of the tire there is a good chance you won't be alive after. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
sobek Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 If an A-10 main or nose tire blows and your not directly in front or rear of the tire there is a good chance you won't be alive after. No doubt, even a car tire is enough to kill you. I know of a guy who killed himself by trying to weld car rims with the tire still being inflated. Bad idea. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
GGTharos Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Yep, IIRC, as a friend described it to me, when the brakes overheat they will heat up the bolts that hold the two halves of the rims together, and this will weaken the bolts. From there, the pressure in the tyres is so great that it'll just blow the rims apart. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Eddie Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 That's if the brakes even stay in one piece. We had a Tornado taxi to EOR in Gioia after the pilot had been "enthusiastic" with the brakes on landing with smoke coming from the main wheel hubs. After he'd reached the EOR (he was taxiing a biut quicker than usual for some reason :D) and the Itallian AF fire service had covered the jet in foam (they even managed to get some on the wheels), the crew ran away (in a 'calm' aircrew manner). Once everything had cooled off and we went to have a look at the brakes we were greeted by something that looked like it used to be a brake unit and a pile of metallic spheres on the ground and inside the hub that used to be a brake unit. Not only had they caught fire, they'd also partially melted. Oh, and yeah, I wan't to see stuff like this modelled one day. :D
Gate-5 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 That would be like saying because your car has ABS, every time you hit the brakes you should hit them as hard as you can. But... what else would I need ABS for? :lol: Got the point, when thinking about wear it certanly makes sence. After only flying in BF3 I somehow have to get back into simulation-mode again ;).
WildBillKelsoe Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 The AI planes seem to decelerate rather quickly after touchdown. I never manged to decelerate that fast. Even at low touchdown speeds I need a much longer distance than the AI to bring the aircraft down to taxiing speed without applying full wheel brakes. Note that when I flare the aircraft, I set the throttle to idle and fully extend the airbrakes. Without applying wheel brakes it often takes almost the whole runway to decelerate the plane to taxiing speed. Hence, I wonder whether it is normal to apply full wheel brakes after touchdown to decelerate the aircraft. Thanks for your help on this! Here are my 2 cents.. Firstly, your approach speed should be takeoff speed + 30 KIAS .. Meaning: Takeoff ROTATE = 145 KIAS... Landing speed = 175 KIAS.. Secondly, brakes deployed at said speed (175) for 30% (no calibration on the cockpit, just visually).. when at the first part of the runway.. Next, reduce throttle to idle, and open brakes fully at midway the runway.. Finally, upon touchdown, engage anti-skid, NWS, and slam on the brake once you have aligned the wheels.. Be careful of jittery. They'll total your nosewheel. With practice, you'll know when too much rudder correction is enough to keep you centered on the runway.. If you would like a track let me know.. 1 AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.
Snoopy Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Finally, upon touchdown, engage anti-skid, NWS, and slam on the brake once you have aligned the wheels.. Be careful of jittery. They'll total your nosewheel. With practice, you'll know when too much rudder correction is enough to keep you centered on the runway.. If you would like a track let me know.. I think we should offer you a refund on you 2 cents ;) You shouldn't even turn anti-skid off until you are parked and shutting the ACFT down. Nose wheel steering on as soon as you touch down is a big no no, and as MANY have said (including myself who talked to a few of our real world A-10 pilots) never slam on the brakes.... v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website
sobek Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Meaning: Takeoff ROTATE = 145 KIAS... Landing speed = 175 KIAS.. Why would landing speed be related to takeoff speed in any way? Your airplane weight is different and your flaps are further extended, so if anything, touchdown speed should be lower. Btw. i've never managed to load my plane enough to require a landing speed of over 170 knots... Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Chops Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Here are my 2 cents.. Firstly, your approach speed should be takeoff speed + 30 KIAS .... I am going to offer you a refund also. Your procedures are far afield from how to operate a real jet aircraft, and have no bearing on reality. Additionally, I have found that the real world technique that Paul mentioned: - As soon as you touchdown speed brakes full open - Use the ENTIRE runway to slow to taxi speed - Use wheelbrakes as needed as you approach the end of the runway is what works bet in the sim as well. 1
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