How to destroy a moving tank column?

[Waxi]

What is the most effective way of taking out a moving column of MBTs, such as in the first missions of the Devil's Cross campaign? Any suggestions are welcome.

 

I was trying to lead aim CBU-97s with CCIP but the tanks were moving too fast and always got out of the area covered by the bomb. I guess this is due to the bomblets being retarded by parachutes and that I just have to increase the lead aim. What do you think?

 

Another approach could be hitting one of the tanks with a Maverick, which in the sim always causes the whole column to stop and spread making it an easier target for the CBU-97s. However, this may not be a valid tactic in the real world. What do you think?

Edited February 2, 2012 by Waxi

[EtherealN]

Personally, I would estimate the moving speed of the column and drop the 97 ahead of them, or (depending on column size) ripple two weapons in CCRP with a spacing in feet based on the size of the column. Also, of course, set HOF to 1800.

[Tailgate]

I never thought that CCRP would work on moving targets, but I loaded up some CBU-105's, tracked the tank column in TGP and set a SPI. Dropped them from 12k and it took out a large part of the column.

[EtherealN]

CCRP isn't really any different than CCIP - you select your intended point and deliver the weapons - the difference is just how you select your intended point. Note though that 105's actually guide to your intended target, and this negates a lot of the inaccuracy that is common with high-altitude CCRP delivery.

[Waxi]

I never thought that CCRP would work on moving targets, but I loaded up some CBU-105's, tracked the tank column in TGP and set a SPI. Dropped them from 12k and it took out a large part of the column.

 

Where did you place the SPI exactly? On the first tank or at some point in front of the column?

[Tailgate]

I locked up a Shilka that was in the middle of the column, that's why I stayed at 12K. :)

[MadTommy]

Hit the lead with a maverick.. circle round and hit them with a CBU. Once they take a hit they tend to park up for a bit.

[Speed]

What is the most effective way of taking out a moving column of MBTs, such as in the first missions of the Devil's Cross campaign? Any suggestions are welcome.

 

I was trying to lead aim CBU-97s with CCIP but the tanks were moving too fast and always got out of the area covered by the bomb. I guess this is due to the bomblets being retarded by parachutes and that I just have to increase the lead aim. What do you think?

 

 

I hit moving columns all the time with CBU-97s, you just have to judge your lead correctly. Sometimes I judge it right, and sometimes I don't, but overall, it's still pretty effective. Remember it might take 20-30 secs after release for the bomblets to impact.

 

Another approach could be hitting one of the tanks with a Maverick, which in the sim always causes the whole column to stop and spread making it an easier target for the CBU-97s. However, this may not be a valid tactic in the real world. What do you think?

 

This is not a fault of the sim, this is a fault of mission design. The default behavior of ground units is to "disperse under fire", it only takes a second to change it in the mission editor to ignore enemy fire and not disperse. Many mission makers do in fact disable dispersal under fire... I do believe it to be more realistic when it is off myself.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Speed

[Grimes]

Yeah, disperse under fire is only really effective when the group is in an urban environment where buildings can obstruct your view or cause the AI to drive between em. If they are in the middle of a field, its kinda pointless. Although I wish there was a "disperse under fire if group alive is below x%"

 

 

If a target is in a convoy formation it is still pretty effective to destroy the first target and then follow up on the others as they drive around the wreckage. The AI tends to bunch up, and slow down as they maneuver around wrecks, this creates an opportunity of making a bombing run a tad easier or likely to hit more targets.

[wess24m]

Hit the lead with a maverick.. circle round and hit them with a CBU. Once they take a hit they tend to park up for a bit.

Same, works well.

[Druid_]

..... Although I wish there was a "disperse under fire if group alive is below x%"

ONCE -> GROUP ALIVE BELOW x% -> AI TASK set dispersal true (in triggered actions).

 

Never tried it but it should work in theory. You could then spawn some ground troops next to the remaining vehicles and have them leg it. If my convoy was getting mullered by an A10 I think I'd abandon vehicle and leg it also.

[Leroy]

The secret of survival is standoff. Always use your longest range weapon first to stop and dissorient the column. I used mav, gun in that order. Tanks are no threat to you but the AAA and Sams supporting them are.

 

Leroy

 

What is the most effective way of taking out a moving column of MBTs, such as in the first missions of the Devil's Cross campaign? Any suggestions are welcome.

 

I was trying to lead aim CBU-97s with CCIP but the tanks were moving too fast and always got out of the area covered by the bomb. I guess this is due to the bomblets being retarded by parachutes and that I just have to increase the lead aim. What do you think?

 

Another approach could be hitting one of the tanks with a Maverick, which in the sim always causes the whole column to stop and spread making it an easier target for the CBU-97s. However, this may not be a valid tactic in the real world. What do you think?

[Grimes]

ONCE -> GROUP ALIVE BELOW x% -> AI TASK set dispersal true (in triggered actions).

 

Never tried it but it should work in theory. You could then spawn some ground troops next to the remaining vehicles and have them leg it. If my convoy was getting mullered by an A10 I think I'd abandon vehicle and leg it also.

 

Yeah it does work, I just think that having certain changes in behavior should be directly related to "group scripting" which should be detached from mission scripting. Theres nothing wrong with being able to force certain behaviors with mission triggers, but it would be nice to have more advanced default behaviors that don't clutter up the trigger list.

[RobbySpike]

Hit the lead with a maverick.. circle round and hit them with a CBU. Once they take a hit they tend to park up for a bit.

Yeah, same here. I usually hit the lead or anti air units first, which will block their path more or less and sometimes leave them in confusion for a short while :) If the column is no close range danger, I do a CCIP dive bomb heading head2head towards their movement direction

[bluepilot76]

Doesnt sound like those CBU97s are a very good tool for the job if your target is moving. I had trouble hitting a fast convoy with them, although didnt realise quite how long it took for them to fall.

[WildBillKelsoe]

I never thought that CCRP would work on moving targets, but I loaded up some CBU-105's, tracked the tank column in TGP and set a SPI. Dropped them from 12k and it took out a large part of the column.

 

 

Try that with a 97/87... Not advertising my clan or anything, but in our group, we buy the stock 87/97 and then upgrade them with the (smart gizmoes) to act like the real thing..

[Heli Shed]

Try that with a 97/87... Not advertising my clan or anything, but in our group, we buy the stock 87/97 and then upgrade them with the (smart gizmoes) to act like the real thing..

 

I'm just lost for words......truely. I'm assuming this is humour is it?

 

The CBU 97 and 87 are two different beasts when fitted with the WCMD (Wind corrected munitions dispenser), become the 105 and 103 vairants, respectively.

[Lobo_63]

 

I was trying to lead aim CBU-97s with CCIP but the tanks were moving too fast and always got out of the area covered by the bomb. I guess this is due to the bomblets being retarded by parachutes and that I just have to increase the lead aim. What do you think?

 

I've been wondering about this type of scenario also and the use of bomb ripple interval in particular. A recent post by Eddie on simhq forum has me rethinking ripple interval usage.

 

"Your release spacing has less to do with your target's spread (almost nothing to do with it in fact) and more to do with the weapons you are using. If we take the Mk-82 as an example, you're ripple spacing is 75ft. Why? Because 75ft between each bomb is the spacing at which the explosive yield of the Mk-82 produces the most damage. Any closer and you are not making the most of the weapons capability, any further and you're spreading your bombs too thin, and will be less effective as a result.

 

To give some perspective, for Mk-84s a 150ft spacing is most effective. And for CBU-87, the ripple settings should allow for around 60ft of bomblet pattern overlap. With ripple single used for soft targets and ripple pairs for armoured targets."

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3505782/2.html

 

So With the above in mind, I wonder what the recommended in sim spacing is for the 97?

Edited February 1, 2012 by Lobo_63

[Tailgate]

CCRP isn't really any different than CCIP - you select your intended point and deliver the weapons - the difference is just how you select your intended point. Note though that 105's actually guide to your intended target, and this negates a lot of the inaccuracy that is common with high-altitude CCRP delivery.

 

If I understand correctly, TGP Point Tracking a moving vehicle automatically calculates the lead point of impact for high alt release? That's what it appears to be doing from my observation.

[Jona33]

AFAIK WCMD's are dropping to Coordinates (like JDAM's) so they won't track a moving target properly. (Haven't read the manual for a while so I can't remember). If the convoy's soft targets I tend to unleash 30mm hell on them. Use mavericks or very high altitude LGB's (Against a shilka say) to hit AA.

[Waxi]

If the convoy's soft targets I tend to unleash 30mm hell on them.

 

Yeah, I could take out a column of about 10 BTRs with almost only one salvo from the gun!

 

You just have to disable PAC, line up with the column's moving direction, aim for the last vehicle of the column and hit the trigger. The bullets will be spread over the whole column by the recoil of the gun. That's really fun and effective ;-)

[Frostiken]

AFAIK WCMD's are dropping to Coordinates (like JDAM's) so they won't track a moving target properly. (Haven't read the manual for a while so I can't remember). If the convoy's soft targets I tend to unleash 30mm hell on them. Use mavericks or very high altitude LGB's (Against a shilka say) to hit AA.

 

Not really, they're 100% inertial with nothing else, so they're guiding to a POINT, not necessarily to coordinates.

[Tailgate]

AFAIK WCMD's are dropping to Coordinates (like JDAM's) so they won't track a moving target properly. (Haven't read the manual for a while so I can't remember). If the convoy's soft targets I tend to unleash 30mm hell on them. Use mavericks or very high altitude LGB's (Against a shilka say) to hit AA.

 

Yeah, I'll check the manual, and I agree, 105's in CCRP from hi alt probably shouldn't guide to a Point Tracked moving target after release.

 

If it is calculating lead, it should be calculating speed and direction of the target at the point of release, so any variation of speed or direction by the target while the bombs are in flight, should be a miss. I'll do some more testing and post some tracks. Might be interesting.

 

 

Eta.

 

I had the HOF set pretty high, 2600, so maybe they were still in range? Anyway, I'll try different variations.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Tailgate

[Jona33]

Not really, they're 100% inertial with nothing else, so they're guiding to a POINT, not necessarily to coordinates.

 

Well my point was that they will fly to wherever your SPI was set not a moving target because the target position isn't updated mid flight.

[Frostiken]

You are correct, but I just wanted to stress that it's important to understand that they're aren't quite JDAMs.