A plea to mission makers

[ralfidude]

Quite a few of us have this request of mission makers that we have wanted to ask of for a while.

 

Since we will not see the next DCS jet for quite a while from now, we really are missing out on the aspect of a-10 dogfighting.

 

However we are aware that from time to time there are a few servers out there hosting dogfight only servers, which are awesome but they only exercise that aspect of it.

 

What we are really looking forward to is to see more maps where there is an air to air threat. Ka-50s are too easy of a pray as are all other choppers, but we always miss out on migs.

 

It would be nice to have some regular a-10 missions where after a certain waypoint is complete, triggers an air threat. Nothing too ridicolous since we all know the a-10 is definitely not built or designed for such a thing, but something that will make a hogs hands sweat.

 

 

Alternatively, we also wondered about having more red vs blue. There are very few servers hosting such maps. Then the ones that do have them, have the red doing their missions hundreds of miles away from blue's missions, and the two a-10s never engage in a brief dogfight against each other.

 

What we always talk about is having a map where blue has a couple of different armor columns that advance to a certain waypoint and the blue a10s need to clear the way and escort them, and the reds have the same mission. Red a-10s would have the russian paint job as well.

 

Mission completion depends on the hogs and ka-50s ability to destroy certain waypoint threats and keep enemy hogs off them, as well as help your side by trying to take down the opposite sides columns that are advancing as well. I know there are a few issues concerning this map mode, but i am sure map makers can find ways around some of them.

 

 

Little things like that would be much more exciting, a lot more fun, and require a lot more coordination, and I just wanted to come on here and give you guys a nudge about it. We cant create maps, but if we could, we would.

 

I know there are a lot of talented map makers out there, I am sure you can come up with some scenarios that will make this a reality!

 

 

 

 

PS: But for the love of god, please make each hogs own ID different and not 1-1.

 

 

A big thank you from the guys at Hardcoregamingclan for all the work you all have put in to this game with your custom maps so far! :thumbup:

[Snoopy]

Uhm....why don't you learn the ME and build your own missions?

[The-Sky]

Uhm....why don't you learn the ME and build your own missions?

 

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed..

 

Why do you have to be so arrogant about it? It's not like he's asking for a map to be made and sent to him. From what I can tell, he's spreading ideas of what he thinks would be good for map makers.

[Jona33]

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed..

 

Why do you have to be so arrogant about it? It's not like he's asking for a map to be made and sent to him. From what I can tell, he's spreading ideas of what he thinks would be good for map makers.

 

He wasn't being arrogant about it. Ralfidude clearly has the ideas for a mission (the hard bit) and it's not that hard to make your own missions. C'mon Ralfi give it a go. Even "complex" stuff like slmod doesn't take long to learn. "Learning" the ME takes a bit of trial and error but eventually you sort things out and it's so much more satisfying.

[AtaliaA1]

Paulrkiii Don't reply we got you on this one.

 

 

Puals response was an attempt to get the OP to try other aspects of this great Sim. It was after all posed as a question, hence the question mark at the end of the sentence.

[Tailgate]

I guess your assuming that Ralfidude has a server to Host his missions.

[Jona33]

If he doesn't he can put it up on the user files of the mission forum and if it is good people will download it...

 

Doesn't have to be good, they downloaded my mission. :D

[AtaliaA1]

Doesn't have to be good, they downloaded my mission. :D

 

 

LOL

[kylania]

I can't see ever playing a Air to Air mission in a CAS fighter. (shrug) More power to you if you enjoy that kind of thing though.

[MustangSally]

I can't see ever playing a Air to Air mission in a CAS fighter. (shrug) More power to you if you enjoy that kind of thing though.

 

Hmmm....Air to Air in an A-10! No thanks.

[wannabe]

We have such a mission! Attack and defend. Two airbases, each must defend two strategic targets. It really is quite fun with some ground rules in place. We limit air to air weapons to guns only. Heck why would they put an A2A gunsite on this pig if it was not meant to be used! lol

It is pretty good at a low speed yo-yo!

[ralfidude]

Honestly it's more of an issue of time on my part. I can be on and play for a little bit or do some video editing, but i have had experience with making maps for other games, and I learned long ago back then, that it's just not my forte and not my thing. I tend to make things over complicated.

 

But yes, the main objective here is to throw out some ideas to people making maps right now. Perhaps you might be stuck on what to do, or everything HAS been done and you want to make something interesting, well this would certainly be a superb idea to try out.

 

 

The thing is to make it so that it is not centered around dogfighting each other. Just a brief couple of moments here or there that might require you to. This keeps things on the edge, with making sure you are really safe around you.

 

 

I must have been pissing joy after a map where I took out a lot of enemy defenses and as I headed back home I get a missile warning. Break hard right and dive with chaff/flare, get slightly hit where my systems are now degraded, but still flying. I take a look behind me to find an A-10 on my 6 diving straight down at me. I pull a manouver where he overshoots me with his speed, and now the hunter becomes the hunted. I whack him with my Aim-9 and now seriously need to get back to base. But what's this? A new challenger has appeared. Off of my 9 I see an A-10 coming right at me, so I bank left and go head on with him. Pop my breaks a few seconds before the merge and we go into a classic dogfight, with the only exception that I am damaged quite a bit. After a few loops, i manage to gun him down, and now SERIOUSLY need to get home. However right below me I spot a KA-50 flying under me back home, and well.. I do have this one AIM-9 left... so that shark never made it to it's final destination. I RTB with the widest grin on my face.

 

THAT alone was the best round I have ever had by myself online (without my usually wingmen on TS with me). The damn track was all messed up as they usually are if they are long so I could never make a movie out of it. But all of this really happened, and ever since then my buddies and me would DIE to have that kind of unexpected action. Your primary objective is to still be an A-10, seek and destroy targets. Your secondary objective is to watch your six for those types of engagements.

 

 

It's a challenge, and we love a challenge.

 

 

So I just thought Id put this out there, if anybody is interested in doing something like that, go for it, we would support you 110%

Edited February 19, 2012 by ralfidude

[Grimes]

Knowing that you have human players acting in opposition to you does tend to ramp up the intensity of gaming and it does make experiences of victory against them that much better. That said its still a difficult task to wrap my mind around making a competitive oriented mission. In my opinion there are just so many variables at play that hinder the mission from being fun. The variables range from the more technical stuff to the gameplay mechanics of the aircraft, and limitations of multiplayer in general. Aside from pure dogfighting missions for the sake of practice and simple fun, I don't see a purpose to a TvT competitive mission utilizing the A-10 or Ka-50. We did it back in FC1 with the A-10A and Su-25A/T, and it had its moments, but no matter how much you tried to make attacking the ground targets the most important thing, players would still focus on the A2A combat.

 

I do agree that the sim can be abit sterile with the lack of heartpounding threats in the form of enemy aircraft. I guess you could blame realism for that and if the mission actually has airthreats, blame the AI CAP for doing their job. However I do think having airthreats that get engaged by friendly CAP can be more enjoyable than a mission without it. Obviously the proximity and capabilities of the air threats would alter the experience severely, but I think their presence would alter the mission experience.

 

 

PS: But for the love of god, please make each hogs own ID different and not 1-1.

Its not like we are actively setting it that way so players get in the habit of changing it. :music_whistling:

 

In actuality we have no direct control over which Net IDs are assigned to which aircraft. I *think* when you make a new aircraft flight it assigns a new NetID, but useful features like copy and paste might keep the netIDs. That said it would be nice to be able to edit it in the mission editor.

[ralfidude]

Iv read someplace that you need to set the aircraft manually when you make a new slot or something like that to avoid the 1-1 thing.

 

 

 

Well, I HAVE seen a mission that utilizes the whole mission prioroty over dogfighting scene.

 

 

Lets say the blues start way west, they have to travel some time east through a series of wpts, where there are objectives to do. At the last waypoint is the point of contact that might bring both sides within reach of each other. This assuming red starts way East and has to move west through their objectives.

 

Both main bases are covered by SA-10/11 and Hawk sites so no way Jose either side will make it to try and base rape each other or get anywhere near that.

 

Preserves main objectives and keeps the planes from diverging from their main paths.

 

 

Making the meeting point at some tall mountains makes it even more fun. But that was just my thinking of it.

[Eddie]

You can't set SADL IDs from the mission editor.

 

That's something that feature in your startup procedure along with DSMS profiles, laser codes etc.

[ralfidude]

Hehe, well, my only gripe with that was the fact that no matter how many times i write in capital letters in chat screen for everybody to change their OWN IDs because i see 13 blinking friendlies, nobody responds. Even when i tell them how to, or if they need to know they can ask. Only perhaps 2 out of 15 people ever will... At that point i just say screw teamwork, I was going to send you data about that Igla you are about to fly into, but now im just going to watch you burn, you selfish bast*rd.

[wolle]

What we are really looking forward to is to see more maps where there is an air to air threat. Ka-50s are too easy of a pray as are all other choppers, but we always miss out on migs.

 

What is your strategy for shooting down a Ka-50? I have a hard time with them. My sidewinders seem to bounce right off them (they hit, there is an explosion, but the chopper keeps on flying), I often need 4 sidewinders to down a single chopper. If I use my gun, they often get me first...:cry:

[ralfidude]

Nah man, you are doing it wrong. Get in from above them and behind, and wait till you are close, then fire off the aim 9s, though its even better if you lock them up with mavericks and shame them to death that way. All else fails, guns. They wont survive that hahaha. Iv gotten so bored of doing that, that I debate even engaging them in the first place...

[wolle]

Thanks ralfidude. Do you (or anybody else) have a track that demonstrates how attacking and shooting down a Ka-50 is done properly?

[ironstrike]

Regarding SADL IDs, you can define them in the mission editor to prevent the ID conflicts that result in flashing symbols and an inability to send targeting and whatnot. Select the unit in question and in the Callsign line will be a box for the callsign name (Enfield, Springfield, Hawg, Dodge, etc.) and two boxes to the right of that. The left box is Group ID, right box is Ownship ID. Unfortunately you can only set the Group ID - ownship is automatically set to whatever number ship it is in that group of units and clients will always be ownship 1. :-/

 

As a mission designer you cannot completely preset net IDs for multiplayer, but you can prevent conflicts for default settings if people don't change them. The most likely culprit for conflicts is copy-paste: all properties, including callsign ID, are copied. The designer just needs to be diligent and go through all jets after placing them, setting each jet to a different group number. An irritating engine limitation, but on the list of "irritating things about the engine" this one is pretty low and you can mostly prevent it. Your players will still have to change them if they want to appear as flight members, but oh well.

 

As a fun aside, I just tried editing the values for group and ownship ID in the mission portion of the .miz and the editor "corrects" them upon loading to reset each first ship in a group (the player's unit) as ownship 1. It looks like you can't even go into the file by hand when you are done creating and properly set IDs for each ship. Bummer.

[ralfidude]

Thanks for that explanation iron.

 

Also, wolle, as soon as the opportunity presents itself to kill some KA-50's, il make a video out of it. Just for you.

[Frostiken]

What is your strategy for shooting down a Ka-50? I have a hard time with them. My sidewinders seem to bounce right off them (they hit, there is an explosion, but the chopper keeps on flying), I often need 4 sidewinders to down a single chopper. If I use my gun, they often get me first...:cry:

 

Yeah I've noticed AIM-9s are particularly randomly ineffective against helicopters for some reason. I've hit some and there isn't even a bit of smoke, others and the whole tail falls off. I know helicopters are generally a tad bit more durable than aircraft, but I would imagine the expanding-rod warhead would bisect the rotors quite nicely at almost any plane of impact and sever or heavily damage them.

 

I guess Dr. Strangelove has some words of advice on that, but still...

Edited February 20, 2012 by Frostiken

[ralfidude]

Yeah... for some reason or other missiles and AI are Dumbed down against choppers. Missiles will fly RIGHT past a helicopter thats just hovering, and sometimes they will take a direct head on impact to the face and nothing seriously bad is wrong with them... it's kind of a laughing matter to me when i fly long missions and switch to F2 and just watch some of these Ka-50s...

 

I could do a better job at shooting one down manually with an Ak than the AI can with a AAA cannon.