Losing an Engine on take off

[kra961]

Couple of times now I've lost and engine while lifting off maybe 80 feet up way past the point of setting her back down.

 

First thing I do is level off and pop the extinguisher, jettison the weapons, pull in flaps and gear.

 

I have yet to be able to save the bird is there something more that I can do to at least get a go around or is it just fait accompli.

[badger66]

Ive had that happen a few times too . I always try to wait to jettison the weapons until after I pass the runway threshold .

 

Most times I manage to get around for a landing . I bring up the flaps and gear to lessen drap and max power , and steer with the rudder , easy on does it . Sometimes if I havent gotten enough airspeed , she will stall and thats that as the saying goes .

[159th_Viper]

Just drop your nose and pick up airspeed, take her around and land. Herewith quick track where I dump the right engine shortly after take-off, come around and land:

 

Track: Engine out.trk

[Frostiken]

I would suggest setting birds to something lower, around 200-300. There's nothing to see and it does nothing to the game except increase odds of a birdstrike, so if you have it set to 1000% you're going to get strikes a lot.

 

By the way, I've found in windy weather that the A-10 on a single engine becomes extremely hard to control at low speeds.

[Tailgate]

Aha, bird strikes. Forgot about that feature. Wonder what the RW percentage of A-10's losing an engine because of it?

[chaos]

As per T.O. A-10A

 

1. control yaw

2. throttles-MAX

3. gear-up

4. stores-jettison

5. safe alt. and airspeed above 150 flaps-up

 

I'd assume the proc. is the same for the C-model. There's a good reason to do it in this order...

[BlueRidgeDx]

Bird strikes are a big deal in tactical aviation, and the military has a program of assessing risk called the Bird Aircraft Strike Hazard (BASH). Based on the BASH condition, there are times when formation takeoffs are prohibited, when only straight-in full-stop approaches may be flown, and even all flight ops are cancelled unless specifically authorized by the Base Commander.

 

Regarding the engine failure itself, you should control control yaw rate with the rudder and bank 5 degrees into the good engine. Select MAX thrust on the good engine, and get the gear up. If necessary, level-off. Set the ENG FUEL FLOW switch for the good engine to OVERRIDE, so that the engine will give increased ITT and thrust.

 

If necessary, EMER JETT your stores. Don't immediately raise the flaps, since at 7deg, they provide more lift than drag. Raising the flaps will increase AoA, which will decrease performance, and will cause a stall if you're below the clean stall speed. Wait until you've accelerated sufficiently to raise the flaps.

 

Avoid turns into the failed engine, and if at any time ground clearance can't be assured or if aircraft control is lost, eject.

 

Edit: Frickin' sniped.

Edited March 5, 2012 by BlueRidgeDx

[Tailgate]

Set the ENG FUEL FLOW switch for the good engine to OVERRIDE

 

Good info. Is this actually modeled in the Sim?

[sobek]

Set the ENG FUEL FLOW switch for the good engine to OVERRIDE, so that the engine will give increased ITT and thrust.

 

Will that do much? I thought that the engines were RPM limited at SL unless you operate in very hot climate (or the engine is damaged/worn out).

[Tornado_Pilot]

I'm pretty sure, that the above mentioned Fuel Flow OVRD is modelled.

 

Had that problem yesterday, got sniped by a .50 cal and had thrust loss on one engine. After recovering the aircraft, I set F F OVRD. and got immediate gain in thrust, although some warnings, that both engines were running hot.

 

After finishing the mission, i wanted to go back to normal Fuel flow, whenn i suddenly lost both engines and had to eject. Don't know why the latter one happened though.

 

Greets

Chris

[BlueRidgeDx]

Will that do much? I thought that the engines were RPM limited at SL unless you operate in very hot climate (or the engine is damaged/worn out).

 

It can result in up to a 20% increase in thrust, though atmospheric conditions would likely keep it to something less than that.

 

There is no RPM limiter per se. RPM is indirectly limited by trimming fuel in order to respect the lower of:

 

1) Maximum compressor discharge pressure. This is the limit you referred to. At low altitude with a large ram recovery (i.e. high airspeed), the compressor discharge pressure is limited to the engine's internal structural limit.

 

or;

 

2) Interstage Turbine Temperature (ITT). This limit is the one removed by moving the ENG FUEL FLOW to OVERRIDE. Doing so removes the T5 temperature sensor input from the fuel schedule, thereby allowing the engine to operate at increased ITT and thrust.

[RobC]

Bird strikes are a big deal in tactical aviation, and the military has a program of assessing risk called the Bird Aircraft Strike Hazard (BASH). Based on the BASH condition, there are times when formation takeoffs are prohibited, when only straight-in full-stop approaches may be flown, and even all flight ops are cancelled unless specifically authorized by the Base Commander.

 

Regarding the engine failure itself, you should control control yaw rate with the rudder and bank 5 degrees into the good engine. Select MAX thrust on the good engine, and get the gear up. If necessary, level-off. Set the ENG FUEL FLOW switch for the good engine to OVERRIDE, so that the engine will give increased ITT and thrust.

 

If necessary, EMER JETT your stores. Don't immediately raise the flaps, since at 7deg, they provide more lift than drag. Raising the flaps will increase AoA, which will decrease performance, and will cause a stall if you're below the clean stall speed. Wait until you've accelerated sufficiently to raise the flaps.

 

Avoid turns into the failed engine, and if at any time ground clearance can't be assured or if aircraft control is lost, eject.

 

Edit: Frickin' sniped.

 

I know a couple guys that would probably be happy to help deal with this issue if provided with a nice spot near the end of the runway, a 12 gauge, a lawn chair, and a case of beer. Just saying :P .

[BlueRidgeDx]

I'm sure this isn't the case everywhere, but at one Air Force installation near me, it's illegal to shoot the damn things. Something about hippies protecting migratory fowl. So hey resort to all kinds of shenanigans: noise cannons, pyrotechnics, falconeering, defoliation, etc...

 

But eventually the local birds become desensitized. And the migratory hordes are too numerous to control. I think eventually, after all other methods have been pursued against a specific bird population, a waiver can be issued to shoot the little bastards. Even then, if I'm not mistaken, it has to be contracted out to authorized parties who use birdshot made from rainbows to humanely kill them.

 

Anyway, I don't know all the details, but suffice it to say it's more involved than just sending an eager Security Forces SrA out with a Benelli. Which is probably a good thing.

[ralfidude]

Any headway of modelling a bird strike a bit better?

 

I have seen these strikes and it causes a massive blowout. Currently its like an engine shut down really... Unless I have yet to experience a massive fat bird hitting me...

[BlueRidgeDx]

I doubt that it's very high on the priority list, but that's just my opinion.

 

The effects of a birdstrike in a turbofan engine can vary significantly on a number of factors such as engine RPM, airspeed, size of the bird, number of birds, if the bird goes through the bypass duct or into the core, etc.

 

Most turbofan engines are highly tolerant of bird strikes up to a certain weight. Sometimes it'll just chew it's little ass up, and the only adverse effect is a nasty smell in the ECS system. A bigger bird at higher RPM can cause compressor stalls, either recoverable or unrecoverable, yet might not actually cause the engine to become inoperable (though you may have to shut it down to clear the stall). Or, worst case scenario, a large bird or a flock of smaller birds will damage the fan - pieces of which are then ingested into the core, causing hard-body impact damage to IGV/VSV system and/or the compressor and basically destroys the engine.

 

Taking a bird is never "good", but it's not always catastrophic either.

Edited March 6, 2012 by BlueRidgeDx

[ralfidude]

We should adopt the fix that JFK has for that.

 

 

Trained Falcon flies around the airport for a while and warns off any birds in the area.

 

http://ngadventure.typepad.com/blog/2009/01/video-highly-trained-falcons-at-jfk-prevent-plane-crashes.html

Edited March 6, 2012 by ralfidude

[Frostiken]

We have literally thousands of Rooks (or maybe Ravens...) that live on Lakenheath and just Lakenheath. You go off base and you only see a few - on-base there will be dozens just chilling between PASs'.

 

We never have bird strikes despite this enormous population living right on the runway... Corvids are incredibly smart though so there's probably something to that.

[roob]

We should adopt the fix that JFK has for that.

 

 

Trained Falcon flies around the airport for a while and warns off any birds in the area.

 

http://ngadventure.typepad.com/blog/2009/01/video-highly-trained-falcons-at-jfk-prevent-plane-crashes.html

 

Didn't even knew that existed. Neat!

[FieroCDSP]

Had this happen a few times. Maybe my birds are too high... hmm... Funny thing is, while not in perfect checklist order, I knew enough to get it back around and land the first time. I've been flying these sims too long.