Landing

[Praetorx]

I have some questions about landing

 

1. When (distance away from runway) do you start reducing throttle?

2. When do you open speed breaks?

3. When should flaps go down?

4. When should throttle be set to idle?

5. What speed should I be landing at?

[FreeFall]

See this thread, I think it pretty much explains the essential stuff:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=85434

 

edit: one more link, about how to use brakes:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1375574#post1375574

Edited March 9, 2012 by FreeFall
added link

[Praetorx]

In the first reply the guy says to have air brakes at 40%, how do I know that they're at 40%?

[FreeFall]

In the first reply the guy says to have air brakes at 40%, how do I know that they're at 40%?

 

Visually, just guestimate. There is no indicator/gauge. :thumbup:

[EtherealN]

1. When (distance away from runway) do you start reducing throttle?

If you mean a straight-in approach, I do so shortly before intercepting the glideslope.

 

2. When do you open speed breaks?

I open them just a smidge (1/3rd) when I enter final, and then immediately after touchdown I deploy them fully. Reason for the former is that I can then retract them quickly to help regain speed fast - turbines take some time to spool up, so this gives me an additional method to gain speed in case of a wave-off.

 

3. When should flaps go down?

If you are on a straight-in approach, deploy first stage flaps when entering the glideslope, deploy second stage as you get around the mile or so.

 

4. When should throttle be set to idle?

On the flare.

 

5. What speed should I be landing at?

There is not specific speed to be landing at. It depends on your weight and drag. Heavier plane lands faster, lighter plane lands slower. Use the AOA gauge on the left HUD bracket to get correct AOA, and this will almost automatically get you the right speed for your given configuration. Then adjust sink rate with throttles - do not simply set the throttles on a given percentage and yank stick around to correct your path. Make gentle adjustments on the throttle to correct sink rate (that is - NOT stick aft/forward), stick is only for bank angle corrections.

[Praetorx]

dangit, I never used the glide slope :P probably would be a good idea for me to go back to that landing video and learn how to

[EtherealN]

Well, you don't need the instrument glideslope either really. When runway threshhold goes a few degrees below the horizontal on your HUD, plant your TVV right on that threshold and just bring her in. No need for fancy instruments if you have a HUD and good weather. :)

 

That said, learning to confidently do approaches at minimum conditions is all sorts of fun if you like a challenge. I especially like that moment when out of the snowstorm that surrounds you there is suddenly a huge runway that you are about to impact. :D

[jp203000]

I have some questions about landing

 

1. When (distance away from runway) do you start reducing throttle?

2. When do you open speed breaks?

3. When should flaps go down?

4. When should throttle be set to idle?

5. What speed should I be landing at?

 

It all depends on how fast you go .

[Depth]

Also depends on loadout and fuel load. It's really easy to make small errors, and when starting out it's really easy to make big errors :P

 

I once extended airbrakes to slow down, too much so I increased throttle, too much so I extended airbrakes, too much so I increased throttle, etc. Flaps and gear both up :lol:

 

Sometimes I need to pee so I just land like a crazy bastard

[Dejjvid]

Aim for 130 IAS. When you get better, you will learn to adjust it.

 

The most common rookie mistake is to get in too slow. If the A-10C is empty, you should touchdown at 120 IAS.

 

Just below the altitude in the HUD is a number, that number is your climb/descent angle. It should read -3, then you're on a perfect glideslope.

[Fish]

.....3. When should flaps go down?........... deploy second stage as you get around the mile or so......

 

Really?

Does not leave much time/distance to 're-trim' to get pitch(AOA)/sink rate b4 touch down.

[towsim]

Reducing the throttle

The throttle is not bound to a distance. You always have a target speed for the specific flight leg you are on at the moment. You have to set the throttle so as to come to and to hold the speed. There exist an advice how to set the engine RPM in a certain situation. This matches only if you are at a speed where fuel weight and payload do not drag you into a dangerous situation. And the resulting speed depends even on flying a Diesel or a GTI. With other words, 'age and maintenance situation'. Once on final you have to consult the speed / weight table.

Speed brakes

The intention is to use the speed brakes never. If your speed management is well done, you never need to use the speed brakes. So the rule is: If you cannot reduce to, or hold a target speed right in time then you support with the speed brakes. The procedure to use the speed brakes as thrust spare is used for short field landings or at airfields with a dangerous obstacle situation.

Flaps

Flaps depend finally on the minimum speed and your AOA what you are allowed to fly. A thumb rule is to use takeoff flaps if you reduce below 170 KIAS. The land flaps should be used below 150 KIAS. If you hear the stall warning at slow speed you should think about setting flaps intensively.

Idle

On a normal stabilized landing with flaps set to land and on a 3 degrees glide slope, you will need a small portion of thrust to hold the Vref (minimum approach speed + 10) until touchdown position. This implies, that idle will be set if you are at touchdown and close enough to the ground that the following stall will not end in a crash. If you are too fast on final, you would use idle and probably speed brakes from the moment you recognize the situation.

Landing speed

The landing speed (KIAS) depends on your total weight on return. Under normal circumstances a pilot would determine the speed out of a diagram. Even here a thumb rule can be used. 120 KIAS plus 5 kts for every 1000 lbs additional load. Pilots even say 120 KIAS plus 5kts for every children.

If gusts are reported, you have to add the gusts speed to your approach speed.

Regards

Mike

[FreeFall]

Speed brakes

The intention is to use the speed brakes never. If your speed management is well done, you never need to use the speed brakes. So the rule is: If you cannot reduce to, or hold a target speed right in time then you support with the speed brakes. The procedure to use the speed brakes as thrust spare is used for short field landings or at airfields with a dangerous obstacle situation.

 

Strange... :confused:

[Kalahari]

I have some questions about landing

 

1. When (distance away from runway) do you start reducing throttle?

2. When do you open speed breaks?

3. When should flaps go down?

4. When should throttle be set to idle?

5. What speed should I be landing at?

 

It all depends on how fast you go .

 

 

This is a great forum,it helps some of us who know nothing about flying anything. Some ppl here fly for real nd actually fly this plane. I think if u feel it is a dumb question,don't answer,some good ppl will. I learned everything I know today from this forum.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Kalahari

[towsim]

Using Speed brakes

The only advantage of speed brakes is effective speed reduction. There is no other advantage. The primary reason for the device were military needs to fulfill the technical requirements of a war time mission. To have speed brakes available during approach and landing, is an additional safety back up.

Fighter aircraft basically follow three types of normal approaches. One is a 360ty overhead (described in the manual) ,a conventional rectangular pattern (seldom) and straight in approaches. All are peace time procedures with the intention to land the aircraft stress free, save and comfortable. The procedures are constructed in a way that you can do your speed management without speedy support. In a 360ty overhead you reduce the speed with a 60 degree bank angle in the break turn. The following base and final is flown as usual.

War time procedures are different. The A10 likes to do a so called tactical straight in. It approaches the extended runway centerline at low level. With the final turn (normally between 3 and 6 NM) it does a sudden pop up to an altitude which establishes a 3 degrees glide slope. This reduces the speed to the required approach speed. Even here the final can be flown as usual without speedies. The exceptions are high altitude spiral approaches. The aircraft approaches the field at high level, probably above 10000 ft AGL. Once it reaches the break point it does one or two 360tys to reduce to pattern altitude. In this case the speedies are used extensively. A jet aircraft cannot reduce the speed with the engines others than prop aircraft. They use the wind milling prop blades as air brakes. They can do steep straight in approaches with glide slopes at 15 degrees and more.

What I want to explain is, that speedies are not a 'must' procedure during normal approaches. But it is an indication of a thoughtless speed management if they are used without compulsion.

Regards

Mike

[BlueRidgeDx]

Speedbrakes are used during approach to keep the engines spooled up in the event of a go-around. The reason is two-fold; first, even modern FADEC controlled engines can take 6-7 seconds to develop maximum thrust from an idle condition. The drag of the speedbrakes allows for a higher engine RPM, which minimizes spool-up time.

 

Second, acceleration time from idle to about 70% N1 can differ significantly for each engine, whereas acceleration from ~70% to max thrust is very uniform. By keeping the engines spooled up you can guarantee even acceleration, which minimizes control difficulties from asymmetric thrust.

[kra961]

As you come in on the final leg drop your gear at around 150 IAS, by the time you're over the end of the ramp you should be between 128 and 142 IAS remember to fly the aircraft down don't let it drop out of the sky flair longer if you need to, remember soft landing. At touch down open your speed brakes 100% takes a bit of practice and becomes second nature after awhile. I personally enjoy landing the most try touch and goes for awhile to get familiar with landing.

[BlueRidgeDx]

don't let it drop out of the sky flair longer if you need to, remember soft landing.

 

Floating in order to get a soft touchdown is a no-no. The most important thing is getting the airplane down in the touchdown zone, not getting a soft landing. In fact, on wet/contaminated runways, you specifically want a firm touchdown.

 

Technique only.

[kra961]

Floating in order to get a soft touchdown is a no-no. The most important thing is getting the airplane down in the touchdown zone, not getting a soft landing. In fact, on wet/contaminated runways, you specifically want a firm touchdown.

 

Technique only.

 

:joystick: Seems like every time I set it down firmly I'm paying for new tires :pilotfly:

[159th_Viper]

:joystick: Seems like every time I set it down firmly I'm paying for new tires :pilotfly:

 

That's the thing - in the military you don't give a rats a$$ about money :)

[EtherealN]

Really?

Does not leave much time/distance to 're-trim' to get pitch(AOA)/sink rate b4 touch down.

 

"re-trim" as the flaps deploy. If you need to spend considerable time trimming things up you're doing something wrong - for me it's a few flicks on the trim hat while the flaps move, perhaps one or two in the following two or three seconds if further adjustments end up necessary, but this happens "automatically" (that is, I don't specifically think about it, I just do it) during all flight and landing is no different.

 

Also note that you don't really "trim" for sink rate during landing, you use the throttles to govern sink rate. Trim is what you use to set your alpha/speed - not your sink rate.

[Wichid]

Sadly doing low visibilty landings is about all I'm doing in DCS right now. I don't have much time to play and it's a quick and challenging thing to do.

 

I always land with my speed brakes out as I have to use them to slow down on the roll out. Don't use the wheel brakes as apparently they are only used at taxi speeds. I do touch them slightly if I need to straighten up though.

[GGTharos]

The manual has a lot of answers to these questions.

 

One thing you'll want to keep in mind though is that you should keep an eye on the AoA gauge. For starters, hitting the right AoA will automatically take care of speed for any weight configuration (Actually, that's a bit of a lie). Once you're comfortable with handling the landing this way, you will find that the manual also contains the numbers (speed, specifically) you should be hitting on aproach and landing.

 

Open your speedbrakes about 40% on final aproach, and fully open on touch down (you can open them to 80% in the air, 100% only once you have weight on wheels).

 

Your flaps should be down on aproach. The sooner you configure, the better - in an overhead, you configure as you're passing runway threshold on your way to the final, after the initial 180. In a straight in, be configured at least a couple miles out. Try not to make make your finals excessively long (ie more than say 5nm), and prefer to fly overhead patterns instead, they get you landed a lot faster.

 

Your throttle should be idled as you flare. Aim to hit the right AoA/Speed, so that your flare carries you to the ground for a good landing without floating. If you find yourself floading, reduce pitch right away (only a little) to avoid stalling yourself onto the runway, or floating an excessive distance.

Touch down in the first 1/3rd of the runway, ideally in the darker area where all the skidmarks are, or on the numbers. Aim for your landing spot and land there.

 

As far as when to reduce throttle - the real answer is 'as required' aka 'it depends'. On initial you'll be reducing it after the break. You need to fly overheads accurately, so you will be holding a certain speed before the break, after the break, and when turning final - all three will be different, and you have to set your throttle to hold each one as required.

On a straight in, reduce throttle as desired to reach aproach speed before you get close. A straight in tends to give you a lot of time to do stuff, so do your configuration reasonably early, just not insanely early (you probably don't want to fly a 10nm 150kt aproach) :)

 

On straight ins, aim to be configured such that you can take hands off stick and throttle and the plane will fly itself to a landing (not exactly true, as the plane will always drift a little in pitch or roll, but you should basically feel quite comfortable with your configuration such that you -can- take your hands off for a few seconds and not worry about it).

 

I have some questions about landing

 

1. When (distance away from runway) do you start reducing throttle?

2. When do you open speed breaks?

3. When should flaps go down?

4. When should throttle be set to idle?

5. What speed should I be landing at?

[doright]

I've noticed on some of my landings that if I had a nose very high flare the plane almost feels like it want's to tip over backward after touchdown. Bad technique I know. Is it possible for the CG to be aft of the mains' contact point, or aft CG plus drag vectors making it unstable?

[GGTharos]

That or you may be overtrimmed. It depends, you'd have to detail the conditions of the landing.