3D Vision supported! Awesome screenshots!

[Mohamengina]

The 3D in this game definitely makes the experience better. I've been playing the game in 3d for a while.

 

Keep in mind it will kill the performance of the game through which is already not so great so you have to turn the graphics down a bit.

[Bushmanni]

"PeterP mentions an issue with the HUD in post #4 above: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...91&postcount=4"

 

I have just been flying around for an hour inside the cockpit and there is nothing wrong with it...even the circl that is your crosshair is in 3D as it should be. It resides on a 2D plane in the cockpit a few feet away as it does in reality.

 

...

 

It does not reside a few feet away in a real plane. Try shooting something with the 3D HUD and you will see what's the problem. In a real plane the HUD seems to be thousands of feet away to correct the aiming issue.

[Harzach]

I have just been flying around for an hour inside the cockpit and there is nothing wrong with it...

 

No offense, but I'll take PeterP's word over yours on this issue.

[XenoCrash]

Oh. I was hoping the answer was some of those 2.99 glasses, and maybe a free download off nvidia!

 

The NVIDIA driver supports 3D using Red/Blue (anaglyph) glasses. I haven't tried them in A-10C yet (I will when I get home!), but they work pretty well in other games. The big issue is that the colors are all messed up, though the 3d effect can still be really good.

[jeffyd123]

i picked up a used mitsubishi DLP 60" for $450 delivered and it will do 3d. playing on it in 2d is absolutely stunning... I just got my nvidia card and im just waiting to find a deal on the specs.

 

My controller is 2 pieces of old wire that I tap together to emulate a keyboard output... its very realistic LOL

 

Really though... if you don't mind a divorce and generally ruining your lives, play on a big screen.

[sammaz]

It does not reside a few feet away in a real plane. Try shooting something with the 3D HUD and you will see what's the problem. In a real plane the HUD seems to be thousands of feet away to correct the aiming issue.

 

So in reality the Circle in the HUD display scales to the depth of the object it is tracking?

 

I am confused...The physical "glass" 2D plane cant move, and I dont think the pilots are wearing stereoscopic HUD glasses, It has to remain 1 size and I could only imagine that the circle scales.

 

Any feedback on this? I could suggest some vertex shader modifications to make it more life-like if we can get a good description of how it is in reality.

 

If you look at this screenshot you can see that the circle in HUD is at the same depth at the other green data there.

 

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/sammaz/image/4f8e503e378501cd77000011/

 

(you can just flick between left and right eyes and you will see the change in perspective)

Edited April 20, 2012 by sammaz

[Harzach]

So in reality the Circle in the HUD display scales to the depth of the object it is tracking?

 

I am confused...The physical "glass" 2D plane cant move, and I dont think the pilots are wearing stereoscopic HUD glasses, It has to remain 1 size and I could only imagine that the circle scales.

 

The HUD image isn't "on" the glass. The HUD projector is focused (collimited) at infinity - nothing "scales".

[Nate--IRL--]

From your own image --- note how the SPI is displayed in two different places for each eye at the same time.

 

The HUD is focused in front of the Aircraft, but not at infinity which would eliminate this parallax as seen in the Gif.

 

 

Nate

[sammaz]

Thanks! I get it now. Your comparison shows perfectly.:thumbup:

 

We have a debug DX9 .dll http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=222386 that allows us to pull out the individual vertex shaders, isolate them, and give them any depth we want. Now I just have to flip through the thousands of shaders to find the one you pointed out.

 

This is going to be perfect!

 

Thanks again

Edited April 20, 2012 by sammaz

[Harzach]

Perfectly illustrated, Nate!

[Wichid]

If 3D Vision were 100% working my head would explode with joy.

[Weta43]

even the circl that is your crosshair is in 3D as it should be. It resides on a 2D plane in the cockpit a few feet away as it does in reality

If it's inside the cockpit, that's the error PeterP was talking about.

[PeterP]

Nate to the rescue! :)

 

 

I also made my own thoughts how I can show you the issue - so the discussion "it is right/is it wrong ?!" comes finally to an end....

so I prepared last night a video that illustrates what is wrong with the HUD, and how it is rendered in-game.

 

It is sure no problem with a 2D projection - but it becomes a big issue in stereoscopic 3D:

 

 

 

I hope that now even the last person understand were the problem is buried. And I fear that only ED can fix this to our full satisfaction.

 

 

And here again the outcome of this:

From your own image --- note how the SPI is displayed in two different places for each eye at the same time.

 

The HUD is focused in front of the Aircraft, but not at infinity which would eliminate this parallax as seen in the Gif.

 

 

Nate

Edited April 20, 2012 by PeterP

[sobek]

I still don't understand why the HUD logic is failing in stereoscopic mode. The anaglyph method works by color coding two renders from different vewpoints and superimposing them. But the HUD logic manages to work correct for different vewpoints without stereoscopic mode. What is the stereoscopic renderer doing to suddenly make the HUD logic fail?

[PeterP]

I try to keep it short and simple ;):

 

The stereoscopic 3D plug-in does not know anything of the game logic to compensate the discrepancy of the HUD position inside the cockpit.

- means: the game-engine uses a "trick" to project the HUD always at a fixed place of the rendered world - even if the HUD is not really projected to "infinity" (at least 300ft distance should do the job).

This works well because the game engine is calibrated to shift the HUD in the correct position of your view-point.

 

But the 3D plug-in simply takes the in-game position of this HUD but don't applies this "trick" - so we have one image for each eye that doesn't correspondent to the outside...

In detail: The 3D plug-in takes this image that the engine has created and makes two different out of it (one for the right /one for the left) This brakes the carefully celebrated HUD position - So It will become a guesswork where the HUD indicators are pointing at.

To fix this on the 3D level we had to "teach" the 3Dplugin what logic the engine is using to correct the HUD position - and the 3D Plug-in would have to use it for both images, but it would be much simpler to move the HUD far more ahead inside of the DCS-Engine ( like I illustrate in the video) , instead of "teaching" a plug-in what to do...

 

And I'm sure that there is a lot to debug for ED when they implement a "true" depth to the HUD , but it is essential for a working collimated HUD in 3D.

 

 

My workaround for this with the IZ3D drivers is to shift the second stereoscopic view to the right (instead of the centred method) - so my (dominant) left-eye has the image that the Engine would render even if no 3D-plugin is used.

 

 

So when I choose "Right shift" I have the original DCS-Render at my left Eye (my dominant one) . For targeting/checking SPI,... I close my right.

 

>>>>

How to Determine Your Dominant Eye: Step-by-Step Instructions

when you put the original render at your dominate eye you often (good light conditions) are able to tell where the "real" gun piper is pointing at without closing the other eye.

 

(I think this is sure also possible with the NVIDIA drivers - but I cant try - I'm on AMD)

- but is a real immersion killer in a combat sortie to always have to close one eye to know where your SPI/GUN piper, ect. is - It is stressful enough with out this ;)

 

But I really enjoy to use 3D for a free-ride from time to time.

 

 

I hope I didn't confused you even more :P ... The best thing is to try it yourself to understand what we are talking about!

 

IZ3D free stereoscopic drivers >>>http://www.iz3d.com/driver

 

Again: this drivers are working only with a 32-bit install.

How to get a 32bit install on a 64bit OS >>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1436915&postcount=4

 

EDIT:Forget the link above! I found a driver that works with 64bit-DCS !!!

look at the quote and follow the link >>

 

Update !

iZ3DDriverSetup.1.10b3 (1.09.0034) is working with DCS 1.1.1.1 64Bit !

Tested with AMD catalyst 12.1

 

(The newest IZ3D 1.12 is not working)

 

 

AA setting in game will not work - you will have to force AA settings with the CCC.

Download iZ3DDriverSetup.1.10b3.exe

Edited April 27, 2012 by PeterP

[sammaz]

Wow thanx PererP that video is perfect.

 

We have been doing exactly this type of stereo HUD adjustment for the past few months with existing games...Pushing HUD, Text, ect into depth to create a more enjoyable experience. Note in the fixes section...

 

fix for 'insane 2':

-moved hud and indicators further into the screen

-mountains had wrong depth.. now should be right

 

http://helixmod.blogspot.com/2012/02/insane-2.html

 

I dropped a reply over at the thread here...

 

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=222386&st=1040&gopid=1398646entry1398646

 

Helix, eqzitara, mana84, and many others (sorry guys) have contributed many hours as a community effort, and it is all for the enjoyment of 3D

Edited April 20, 2012 by sammaz

[PeterP]

Pushing HUD, Text, ect into depth to create a more enjoyable experience.

 

 

;)Sorry to be such a pessimist...

(in my experience it is always better to be pessimistic, than being a very disappointed optimist )

 

Pushing the HUD only forward( and resizing it) will probably not help.

 

As I explained above - The DCS engine uses a "fixed "logic to align the HUD output with the outside.

And Moving the HUD will probably make it fully FUBAR.

This can only work if you can also switch off the game-logic to compensate this.

 

 

That's why I wrote

And I fear that only ED can fix this to our full satisfaction.

But having a try wouldn't be a bad idea.
Edited April 20, 2012 by PeterP

[sobek]

So the stereoscopic mode doesn't use two different ingame renders? That would explain what is happening.

[PeterP]

Correct!

More detail: DCS also doesn't render the image - it send only a instruction of it.

 

(Don't take me word for word - this is heavily simplified - so I don't smash someone's brain , including my own...;))

 

Normal way of the render image:

DCS sends DX9 instructions - lets call it the "cooking-recipe" -to the DX9 interface - and than your OS together with your GPU is interpreting this recipe to bring it on the screen.

(That's why it can be look different from driver to diver/ from GPU to GPU..., as they can interpret it slightly different as every cook has his own way to give the things flavour)

 

(So keep in mind that this recipe contains all data about the geometry and where to find the textures)

 

 

When the stereoscopic 3D image is rendered:

DCS sends the cocking-recipe to the DX9 interface... and than: Bang!

The 3D plug-in grabs this - and modifies it to make a copy of it with two slightly different angles - and than it will be hand out as usual:

...your OS together with your GPU is interpreting this recipe to bring it on the screen.

 

 

... now you should fully understand that this recipe can't contain data how to handle things like the HUD when viewed form different angles (reminder: DCS shifts the HUD a little when you move your eye-point to compensate the fact that the HUD is rendered inside the cockpit and not far away).

 

DCS also don't knows anything that the recipe will be modified after the hand-out.

 

So the "HUD render problem" can be only solved fully satisfying if DCS would render the HUD way ahead in-front of the cockpit and makes it static - means: no shift compensation when you move your eye-point.

 

Edit: ...or , wait! I think I'm on something - but I first have to get in front of my console at home to check it out... might work....

...to be continued...

Edited April 20, 2012 by PeterP

[sobek]

Ok, so essentially, the HUD logic gets sidetracked in that it is no longer involved when the view shift happens. That makes perfect sense.

[PeterP]

Wow thanx PererP that video is perfect.

 

[...]

 

I dropped a reply over at the thread here...

 

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=222386&st=1040&gopid=1398646entry1398646

 

 

Have added it to my "watched topics" at my IPhone and will create a account to step in if assistance is needed. - but keep in mind that I'm a AMD user - so I can only comment but not test.

 

>>> The post:

 

The guys over at the DCS A10C forums did an amazing presentation on where the developers are stuck with a stereoscopic HUD issue.

Right now it looks great when you are exploring the cockpit. The HUD (Green Floating Data in the front) is on a 2D plane inside of the cockpit. The developers are trying to think up a way to push that green data out about "300 ft." infront of the aircraft.

 

 

If any of the talented people of this thread can drop by and give their thoughts after watching the video please drop a reply in this thread.

 

http://forums.eagle....?t=87102&page=4

 

PeterP is the most knowlegeable* and in contact with the QA team there.*

 

I think that we can make this mirror a real life A10C cockpit experience with all of the talent here and over there.

 

Thanx!

*1 Thank you !! - but I only use my abilities to count 1+1 together. There are many more with much more knowledge !!

(everyone is able to look "knowledgeable"...they only have to stop one second before posting questions and/or assumptions...e.g. look something up in the manual or just think things over again and gather some facts. It's sometimes really so easy.)

 

*2 I'm not in contact with a QA team.

I'm not involved in any internal things.

I'm a normal member/flightsim enthusiast like all others in this forum.

Edited April 20, 2012 by PeterP

[rhaak]

as every cock has his own way to give the things flavour

 

:lol:

[Depth]

fix for 'insane 2':

-moved hud and indicators further into the screen

-mountains had wrong depth.. now should be right

 

Damn mountains, they've been onto me for a while now :crazy:

 

I regret nothing.

[PeterP]

..

Update !

iZ3DDriverSetup.1.10b3 (1.09.0034) is working with DCS 1.1.1.1 64Bit !

Tested with AMD catalyst 12.1

 

(The newest IZ3D 1.12 is not working)

 

 

AA setting in game will not work - you will have to force AA settings with the CCC.

Download iZ3DDriverSetup.1.10b3.exe

[sammaz]

..

Nice!

 

We have been using 3D Vision and it has been great. Does the IZ3D driver offer any improvements for DCS A10C ?