ACM Training Vids Tutorials a Possibility?

[ErichVon]

I like the training video tutorials.

 

Any chance of including more advanced Air Combat Maneuvers possibly somehow involving an opponent as to the basic moves, merge, then the more advanced moves like lead turn, defensive spiral, high and low yo-yo's, flat scissors and rolling scissors, sliceback, lag displacement roll, etc.?

 

Sliceback is what some guys were discussing couple days ago as an impossible move as to The History Channel's video interpretation.

 

I need the training, for sure.

 

(Edited May 15, 2012):

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What would be cool is to setup an A.I. opponent at various levels of skill to be setup in the mission editor and pre-set canned cycles to just train on one aspect of a certain maneuver me against the one A.I guy. Just a suggestion.

I use to program NC tape lathes and a "canned cycle", for instance, is how we single point threaded; there that dates me.

Edited May 15, 2012 by ErichVon

[sonic]

 

This is for rise of flight but ACM is ACM :)

[ErichVon]

 

This is for rise of flight but ACM is ACM :)

 

What I would like to see is interactive training. I have the books. Nothing beats actual interactive training between two players be it people or A.I.

 

Yes, my other sim too has lots of videos.

 

I don't have Rise of Flight.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

I might get Rise of Flight. LOL!

Edited May 14, 2012 by ErichVon

[leafer]

The way I understand the scissors is you put the bad guy on your lift vector, top of your canopy, and when he goes out of sight you snap the opposite direction, put him back on your lift vector, repeat until he overshoots. This is one maneuver I can't quite grasp for some reason. I tried doing what I described above the other night in MP where two guys tried to bang me, and after a few turns, one overshot right in front of me, but I couldn't take the shot because my gunnery sucks and the Stang was getting all wobbly. I guess it works?

[flightace37]

The way I understand the scissors is you put the bad guy on your lift vector, top of your canopy, and when he goes out of sight you snap the opposite direction, put him back on your lift vector, repeat until he overshoots. This is one maneuver I can't quite grasp for some reason. I tried doing what I described above the other night in MP where two guys tried to bang me, and after a few turns, one overshot right in front of me, but I couldn't take the shot because my gunnery sucks and the Stang was getting all wobbly. I guess it works?

 

When you're performing scissors, watch how well the enemy is settled into the turn with you. You can tell when he's rolled into the same plane and pulling G by looking at his nose and wings. The moment he is settled in, reverse your turn in an unpredictable way. Most people roll through the upright position. It's okay to do that, but make sure you roll through inverted from time to time to keep throwing the enemy pilot off. Also adjust your flight path, sometimes using a slight climb or a slight descent.

 

That being said, you don't want to use a flat scissors too often in the P-51. It's not well-suited to it, and a smart opponent will line you up and skin you like a stuck pig. Remember that pulling on the pole too much will reduce your air speed, and there is a point at which an opponent with higher speed will have better turn rate than you do. Flat scissors is also very predictable, and he can fly his aircraft to shoot you as you come back across. (This is the reason you reverse only after he is settled in.)

 

Get into a rolling scissors instead. You'll generate more rapid closure to produce that overshoot, and it's more difficult for an opponent to line you up for a shot. The best way to do this that I've found is to perform flat scissors or 90* guns defense maneuvers until the enemy is in close, being careful not to get too slow, then take it suddenly into the vertical. If you do it right, he won't have the energy to match because he's been playing catch up the entire time, and you'll beat him out very quickly and get on his six at close range.

 

 

With regards to a video series, I recommend first discussing smooth handling of the airframe (all the different ways you can burn energy), then pursuit curves. After that, you can get into vertical/oblique turns as a general concept, and then discuss the merge (whether or not to lead turn, etc.)

Edited May 14, 2012 by flightace37

[G-Lock91]

I've asked about this on another thread.. been referred to some good books, but YES and interactive training video that covers this would be awesome!

[WildBillKelsoe]

The other day, I joined STP server under TurBO

 

Not surprised at all, that I got sanded thrice, got shot twice....

 

I'm seriously considering buying that sim (not sure if hi-fed applies, but I want to learn more about these maneuvers)

 

Could you guys nominate any 'combat-sim maneuvers/ reality training maneuvers books' to buy? One that is comprehensive in the multitude of techniques is sincerely appreciated. Like BnZ, TnZ (or TMZ :D), etc.. I want to muster those techniques in my big beautiful doll.

Edited May 14, 2012 by WildBillKelsoe

[Zooker]

Basic Fighter Maneuvers (BFM) and Air Combat Maneuvering (ACM) is as much an art as it is a science. There is no move counter move, only basic fundamentals. After that it's up to your experience, skill and ability. It always helps to have a friend.

 

I recommend Robert Shaw's Fighter Combat Tactics and Maneuvering. The book is very thorough, but it can be hard to read as is it very technical.

[cichlidfan]

I recommend Robert Shaw's Fighter Combat Tactics and Maneuvering. The book is very thorough, but it can be hard to read as is it very technical.

 

Plan on reading it, or at least parts of it, more than once.;)

[leafer]

Get some caffeine drip when you read Shaw's book. That thing put me to sleep on many a try.

 

What you need is to get your butt whooped online first then read this stuff. Otherwise some head might explode trying to get the visual of what he's talking about in your head. I know mine exploded dung beetles on many occasion reading that book.

[Zooker]

Expect to die a lot! In IL-2, I had the flying part down, shooting was pretty good, and my BFM and ACM wasn't bad. Now in DCS P-51, I'm back to step one, flying plane and I'm dieing a lot.

 

It helps to talk about it with others to. Another pilot might just describe a maneuver just right so that it clicks!

[leafer]

 

It helps to talk about it with others to. Another pilot might just describe a maneuver just right so that it clicks!

 

Yep. That was how some of the stuff clicked for me back in the Warbirds days. Just be careful who you ask because majority of simmers love to go all library-like on leaving you a shivering wreck of question mark. Look around here for examples. :D Ask a question around here and see something like this happen. "Well...if you started out behind his six and ended up butt naked on his twelve then you're not doing it right." Right about here is when someone else jumps in to say "it's not that he's not doing it right. He's not doing it at all." huh? And newbie balls like waterfall. That happened to me yearsss ago.

[tintifaxl]

I really liked the Falcon 3 "Art of the Kill" videos. You'll find them on youtube.

[tintifaxl]

What I would like to see is interactive training. I have the books. Nothing beats actual interactive training between two players be it people or A.I.

 

Yes, my other sim too has lots of videos.

 

I don't have Rise of Flight.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

I might get Rise of Flight. LOL!

 

We could always ask mapleflagmissions to make some. Edit: I just did.

Edited May 15, 2012 by tintifaxl

[ErichVon]

I've asked about this on another thread.. been referred to some good books, but YES and interactive training video that covers this would be awesome!

 

I have "In Pursuit" and Shaw's book.

 

What I need is advanced training either by an interactive tutorial or a real tutor via one of the squads.

 

The Rise Of Flight set of videos somebody suggested is a nice start. The 1st one was a good one.

 

I do good enough. I think all WWII USA planes were considered boom and zoom. The P-51 is not really a turn fighter and it is in its element above 25,000 feet. I usually can cold start, takeoff, fart around some, I might get a kill, I definitely like to tree hop and see just how good my opponent is at it, I kill a lot of guys that way without firing a shot. I then go back and land.

 

But I am missing a lot of fun, because I do not know the advanced moves.

[ErichVon]

Yep. That was how some of the stuff clicked for me back in the Warbirds days. Just be careful who you ask because majority of simmers love to go all library-like on leaving you a shivering wreck of question mark. Look around here for examples. :D Ask a question around here and see something like this happen. "Well...if you started out behind his six and ended up butt naked on his twelve then you're not doing it right." Right about here is when someone else jumps in to say "it's not that he's not doing it right. He's not doing it at all." huh? And newbie balls like waterfall. That happened to me yearsss ago.

 

Most all the guys I have trained with in other sims, just want somebody for target shooting. Not for learning. I do not stay long for that. Some squads want me to be bait so the leaders can rack up more points for themselves. Ditto. I did join one squad to DCS, flying the A-10C last year and they were not like what I have described above in other sims, but they had done all the betas for it and were way ahead of me on the learning curve and they had no real training program from point A to point B to point C, etc. , like the military does. I know how the military trains, I was Navy for 8 years, though not a pilot, the learning is structured, much more efficient than high school or college was.

 

I usually learn and fly by myself, but it is a slow process.

 

I was flying with some experienced guys last week. They were good and better than me. But one guy told me I was no noob. I said, yep, I have died a lot over the years.

Edited May 15, 2012 by ErichVon

[ErichVon]

The other day, I joined STP server under TurBO

 

Not surprised at all, that I got sanded thrice, got shot twice....

 

I'm seriously considering buying that sim (not sure if hi-fed applies, but I want to learn more about these maneuvers)

 

Could you guys nominate any 'combat-sim maneuvers/ reality training maneuvers books' to buy? One that is comprehensive in the multitude of techniques is sincerely appreciated. Like BnZ, TnZ (or TMZ :D), etc.. I want to muster those techniques in my big beautiful doll.

 

Here is a freebie (.pdf) for you made for the sim pilot. He used to fly WWII-On-Line and is based on that online sim.

 

http://pilotpress.wordpress.com/in-pursuit/

 

I do not have his, "Book of Noob", yet. Think I will get it.

http://pilotpress.wordpress.com/book-of-n00b/

 

The other book is by Shaw, "Fighter Combat".

It is for real jet combat.

[Smokin Hole]

In Persuit is a great read. Each chapter begins with a little after action report that we all can relate to. Read that and watch Requiem's Rise of Flight videos mentioned above and you'll be well prepared. Requiem is a squadmate of mine. Although he's not a pilot he did have a gig flying adversary in the F-18 sim as a Navy contractor. Most of what works in-close in the F-18 also works in the Se-5a and everything in between.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Here is a freebie (.pdf) for you made for the sim pilot. He used to fly WWII-On-Line and is based on that online sim.

 

http://pilotpress.wordpress.com/in-pursuit/

 

I do not have his, "Book of Noob", yet. Think I will get it.

http://pilotpress.wordpress.com/book-of-n00b/

 

The other book is by Shaw, "Fighter Combat".

It is for real jet combat.

 

In Persuit is a great read. Each chapter begins with a little after action report that we all can relate to. Read that and watch Requiem's Rise of Flight videos mentioned above and you'll be well prepared. Requiem is a squadmate of mine. Although he's not a pilot he did have a gig flying adversary in the F-18 sim as a Navy contractor. Most of what works in-close in the F-18 also works in the Se-5a and everything in between.

 

Thanks guys. I'm also thinking about this

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0874550920/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

[Sabre-TLA]

Here is a good online read and some of this information was used for our DCS-A10C Basic Flight Training Qualification Campaign.

 

http://www.flightsimbooks.com/jfs/

 

I think when FC3 comes out we can look at some interactive missions that will replicate some of this.

 

We are very busy with the current missions for the DCS A-10C Advanced Flight Training Campaign and the DCS Ka-50 Basic Flight Training Campaign.

[jimcarrel]

Shaw's book in PDF.

http://www.foinikas.org/ftp/public/Docs/Fighter%20Combat%20-%20Tactics%20and%20Maneuvering.pdf

 

also another for BFM.

http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/acm-merge/acm-merge.htm

Edited May 16, 2012 by jimcarrel

[Blaze]

Ironhand's tutorials on FlankerTraining are still very good resources and worth a look at! :)