How the heck do you do this (Corkscrew Roll)???

[Shaderhacker]

In all my years playing flight sims, this is the most beautiful and graceful manuever I have ever seen. I tried my best to do this in LockOn Flaming Cliffs to no avail. I would LOVE to learn how to do this manuever. First off, what is it officially called? Secondly, has anyone done this with the P-51 sim yet? If so, please point me to a link!!! Lastly, HOW? It's not a typical roll.. so how do you keep your plane heading straight and roll the aircraft around the X-axis (parallel to the ground) WITH going up and down in altitude??

 

The clip is here:

 

 

Go to 11:14.

 

Simply Amazing!

 

-M

 

P.S. How do you get the message editor to display the picture of the youtube video instead of using a link? YOUTUBE doesn't work.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Shaderhacker

[VIMANAMAN]

Isn't a continuos barrel roll i.e. just the right amount of rudder and pull? held rather expertly in this case, I'd have to try it to be sure and I'm by no means and expert.

 

It's a cool move sure enough.

 

Re the youtube thing - in quick reply anyway if you hit the YouTube icon, just place the vid ref part only, in the middle between the close bracket and the open bracket.

[cichlidfan]

Delete this part, http://youtu.be/ and leave this part. Cs8-F73N6K4

 

[Yellonet]

You pull back on the stick a bit while you roll.

[ShuRugal]

it's called a barrel roll (because the path of the aircraft is as if it was rolling along the inside surface of a barrel), and is performed by applying aileron and elevator simultaneously.

[Shaderhacker]

it's called a barrel roll (because the path of the aircraft is as if it was rolling along the inside surface of a barrel), and is performed by applying aileron and elevator simultaneously.

 

I'm sorry but I don't really believe this.

 

 

That is NOT what these other guys are doing in their aircraft. They are almost doing complete circles.

 

I put up a challenge. Someone post a track doing this manuever in P-51 so I can study it. This P-51 losses too much heading but the first video, the plane keeps it's current heading.

 

It is *NOT* as trivial as it seems.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Shaderhacker

[jocko417]

Who said anything about rudder, he said aileron and elevator. In the video you posted the aircraft is NOT maintaining a heading, it's nose is tracing a circular path, not staying on one point.

[Shaderhacker]

Who said anything about rudder, he said aileron and elevator. In the video you posted the aircraft is NOT maintaining a heading, it's nose is tracing a circular path, not staying on one point.

 

Sorry, I reread what I posted and edited it. And you are right, I meant maintaining a course and a proper altitude.

 

Look at the above video. He loses way too much altitude and it doesn't look very "circular" even though we are viewing from the back.

 

So, I agree it's a barrel roll.. I just have never seen it done PERFECTLY before except in airshows..

[flightace37]

It's a barrel roll. The handling concepts are the same as for rolling scissors BFM. To maintain it around a horizontal axis, you start with a pitch offset and begin a steady roll with positive G. The combination of the pitch and roll rate affects the angle and diameter of the "corkscrew". Use the rudder to maintain coordinated flight throughout. Experience and attention to detail lead to a prettier maneuver.

 

Due to "God's G", you need to make adjustments to pitch/roll rates during different parts of the maneuver. You have to relax by 1G over the top and increase by 1G at the bottom or you'll end up flying an oval shape.

Edited May 23, 2012 by flightace37

[Shaderhacker]

It's a barrel roll. The handling concepts are the same as for rolling scissors BFM. To maintain it around a horizontal axis, you start with a pitch offset and begin a steady roll with positive G. The combination of the pitch and roll rate affects the angle and diameter of the "corkscrew". Use the rudder to maintain coordinated flight throughout. Experience and attention to detail lead to a prettier maneuver.

 

Due to "God's G", you need to make adjustments to pitch/roll rates during different parts of the maneuver. You have to relax by 1G over the top and increase by 1G at the bottom or you'll end up flying an oval shape.

 

 

Can you demonstrate this in a P-51 vid please?

[flightace37]

I'll try to make a track later, unless someone beats me to it.

[WildBillKelsoe]

In all my years playing flight sims, this is the most beautiful and graceful manuever I have ever seen. I tried my best to do this in LockOn Flaming Cliffs to no avail. I would LOVE to learn how to do this manuever. First off, what is it officially called? Secondly, has anyone done this with the P-51 sim yet? If so, please point me to a link!!! Lastly, HOW? It's not a typical roll.. so how do you keep your plane heading straight and roll the aircraft around the X-axis (parallel to the ground) WITH going up and down in altitude??

 

The clip is here:

 

 

Go to 11:14.

 

Simply Amazing!

 

-M

 

P.S. How do you get the message editor to display the picture of the youtube video instead of using a link? YOUTUBE doesn't work.

 

If you lose a wing and on-fire, as in getting shot from 1V1 AI mission, look back and you'll be performing one to the ground.. But joking aside, it needs aLOT of practice, and to fine tune, use tacview for analysis of your trajectory.

[ShuRugal]

i cannot, as i do not own a copy of P-51 yet.

[G-Lock91]

We know it's not a "typical roll" Anybody know what that maneuver is called? Looks pretty cool!

[Shaderhacker]

We know it's not a "typical roll" Anybody know what that maneuver is called? Looks pretty cool!

 

It is called a Barrel Roll. It's just a PERFECT Barrel Roll! :thumbup:

[flightace37]

i cannot, as i do not own a copy of P-51 yet.

 

Do you have DCS World? If not, there's no point in me making a trackfile. You won't be able to examine what I'm doing through video alone.

[Shaderhacker]

Do you have DCS World? If not, there's no point in me making a trackfile. You won't be able to examine what I'm doing through video alone.

 

 

I have it. Let's see it!

[flightace37]

I'm no expert at aerobatics, but this track should demonstrate the basic concept over the course of a few attempts. It comes down to coordinated changes and timing. It definitely helps if you pick a point far in the distance to focus on. If you can make that point stay in one place, then your aircraft will be spinning around a fixed axis, and you'll get that nice circular pattern.

 

The problem to overcome is gravity, which manifests itself as two separate effects. The first is a change in speed, and the second is an actual physical increase and decrease in effective G.

 

When your aircraft is at the very top of a loop, then gravity is working in your favor. It adds +1G to whatever load factor you are experiencing (G you feel in your gut). In essence, you get an entire G for free while coming over the top.

 

When you're coming across the bottom of a loop or corkscrew, then gravity is working against you. If your load factor is 4G, you are actually only affecting the nose with 3G worth of pull.

 

The vertical component of your effective G is a cosine function of the pitch angle of your nose.

 

Effective Vertical G = Vertical Load Factor Component - cos(pitch angle)

 

Thus to pull a perfect loop or corkscrew, you have to smoothly move your stick through a range of throw to maintain a specific effective G. For example, to pull a constant 3G loop, you would start your pull-up from the horizontal with 4G, relax to 3G as you pass through 90 degrees, 2G as you come inverted, 3G as you come around the back side, then 4G again at the bottom.

 

Up until now, I've made the assumption that your aircraft is flying at constant speed, but that is by no means the case. You have to modulate effective G depending upon airspeed. You're flying slower at the top of a loop or corkscrew, and thus have to spend more time to cover the same distance. Decrease effective G accordingly. At the bottom, you're flying faster, requiring an increase in G to get that nose up quicker. (The idea is to maintain a constant turn radius and rate.)

 

What's worse in a corkscrew is that because you must spend more time going over the top, you actually have to decrease your roll rate to compensate. The opposite is true coming around the bottom.

 

That's the physics analysis of what's going on. Now you can all look at my embarrassing track and see the effects of gravity at work, as well as my attempts to compensate for it.

BarrelRolls.trk

[lobo]

Barrel roll. It's done while maintaining positive G all the way around. Been done in 707, Concorde, and Bob Hoover could do it while pouring himself a glass of iced tea. See the vid:

 

I tried it and spilled iced tea all over my desk. :music_whistling:

[Shaderhacker]

Thanks for all the info on the physics behind the move. I will check out the track when I get home.

 

I have come to the conclusion that this maneuver is hard to do - and the flight model has to be very accurate. This is why I don't see it in the modern combat flight games of today (i.e. HAWX 2).

 

Also, doesn't look like many even on these boards can do it. :P

[Ali Fish]

cup of water mod we need !:)

[Rotareneg]

It's also something that's easier done with an aircraft that doesn't have to deal with all the single engine prop handling issues.

[Shaderhacker]

It's also something that's easier done with an aircraft that doesn't have to deal with all the single engine prop handling issues.

 

I'd love to see someone post the A-10 doing it. All the other flight games out there probably don't have a good enough flight model to pull it off.

[SimFreak]

I'd love to see someone post the A-10 doing it. All the other flight games out there probably don't have a good enough flight model to pull it off.

 

I'm not sure where you get that idea from. Doing a barrel roll is in no way a FM test.

[Shaderhacker]

I'm not sure where you get that idea from. Doing a barrel roll is in no way a FM test.

 

It is a part of it.. try to do it in BF3's jet airplane that just go up and down with no wind resistance and can't be stalled, no true gravity or simulation of aerodynamics around the wing. Even better, try it in a game like HAWX 2.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Shaderhacker