AFM for the F-16C?

[GGTharos]

What if it isn't an F-18 or F-16?

[Fox One]

If it isn't, that's just fine with me. I said it before, I don't care if it's Su-7 or F-15. Like many others, I just want a supersonic with AFM. I want it, and I want it badly :D

 

Here is why it will be F-16 or F-18: The F-14, -15 and -22 are developed by IRIS. AFAIK, those are all the "popular fixed-wing US planes" :P

[GGTharos]

Maybe I should have asked 'what if it isn't multirole?'.

 

In any case, IRIS is doing the -15E. That still leaves the -15C available, not to mention aircraft like the F-4, F-104, and others.

[Exorcet]

Maybe I should have asked 'what if it isn't multirole?'.

 

In any case, IRIS is doing the -15E. That still leaves the -15C available, not to mention aircraft like the F-4, F-104, and others.

 

Yes, if F-15C is the next ED module at DCS A-10 level I'll finally be able to stop checking the forums every day. If it's F-18 or F-16, it will be a certain buy, but I still want a single seat pure fighter ahead of those two.

 

That said, F-8 or F-104 would make nice opponents for Beczl's MiG.

[GGTharos]

Or an F-5. Or a MiG-28 :D

 

Anyway, seems like we're on the same page :)

[Scooternutz]

If DCS releases an F-16, or a third party does, it would fare very well for DCS provided it is all AFM. Aside from the lack of a Dynamic Campaign, having the Viper would create a storm of pilots anxiously awaiting to fly an F-16 in DCS World. It would motivate me to learn the mission editor a lot more. The Viper has been home to many of us for more than a decade and somehow DCS overlooked that by not creating a multi-role fighter yet and has failed to make an announcement. I would even settle for a no we are not and that is why we have this third party project. Lets face it the Falcon Simulator was it and I think it is time to get back to that.

 

There is a terrain project in the works for BMS, as far as I know it still active, referred to as FLARE. If that releases and DCS still has only the A-10 it will once again create tension between the two groups. I would love to see BMS do a VIPER for DCS. BMS is without a doubt the most advanced sim I have ever flown next to A-10C. Aside from the dumb flame war between DCS and BMS, BMS is top notch. I have a lot of experience with Naval aviation and BMS is solid and rivals many modern operational sims today. I would love to see a merge of these awesome developers.

 

In closing, I have some reservations about the AFM and SFM debate. I hope that DCS does not become muddied as FSX is right now. There are thousands of add on worthless planes out there for FSX.

 

In my opinion, any aircraft in DCS should be as advanced as allowed and should never be simplified. If a developer releases a simplified aircraft only for DCS, welcome to combat FSX.

[Azazel]

Or an F-5. Or a MiG-28 :D

 

Anyway, seems like we're on the same page :)

 

I'd take an F-5 any day. I don't see the point in ED releasing F-15C in FC3 and then duplicating them selves with a DCS: F-15C. I also haven't seen the vast majority of the community asking for the F-15C either. Whatever ED releases I'll buy though (not like it's breaking the bank). :)

[GGTharos]

I'd take an F-5 any day. I don't see the point in ED releasing F-15C in FC3 and then duplicating them selves with a DCS: F-15C.

 

That doesn't matter. Originally we were supposed to get DCS: A-10A, but ED got a contract for the 10C. There is no real duplication if they make a DCS version of the F-15C. They would be two very different aircraft in certain ways.

 

I also haven't seen the vast majority of the community asking for the F-15C either. Whatever ED releases I'll buy though (not like it's breaking the bank). :)

 

Did you see the majority of the community asking for a Ka-50 or A-10C?

[Eddie]

That still leaves the -15C available....

 

I thought we'd spoken to you about this before! You're not getting an Eagle, not until the rest of us have a multi-role jet, now stop giving people ideas! :D

[GGTharos]

I guess my memory is pretty bad. Oh look, Eagle! :D

 

My guess is that the next aircraft is the F-15C. Here's the big hint:

 

Eagle Dynamics

 

...

 

 

 

:D

 

I thought we'd spoken to you about this before! You're not getting an Eagle, not until the rest of us have a multi-role jet, now stop giving people ideas! :D

[cichlidfan]

Did you see the majority of the community asking for a Ka-50 or A-10C?

 

Must have been the same majority that was begging ED to make a P-51. :P

[NineLine]

ED has been pretty good at giving me what I want, that I didnt even know I wanted :)

[Fox One]

Maybe I should have asked 'what if it isn't multirole?'.

 

In any case, IRIS is doing the -15E. That still leaves the -15C available, not to mention aircraft like the F-4, F-104, and others.

 

I would be very surprised if it's not multirole. Because the overwhelming majority of people on this forum have been screaming for years for a multirole supersonic with AFM and complex systems modelling. In Ka-50, A-10C and P-51 ED hasn't yet delivered that. I suppose ED cares about what people want. Now it would be about time for a multirole.

 

If I would have to develop the first AFM for supersonic a/c, I would certainly chose a plane with a relatively simple shape, like F-104. To begin with F-18, maybe not the best idea. Except for the natural complexity of simulating supersonic flight with an AFM, the F-18 also has very complex aerodynamic interactions between LERX, wing, fins, etc. I imagine it's very hard to tune everything right and be able to get the entire flight envelope corect. You need really hard data for that. Or you can try with wind tunnel models experiments.

 

For example, in F-18 in certain parts of the flight envelope if the pilot commands a roll, all control surfaces, LE flaps, flaperons, ailerons, stabilators and rudders will deflect. One can only imagine the challenge to build an AFM for such an aircraft.

 

Speaking of F-104, is your signature a hint about ED's next DCS plane? :D

[Azazel]

That doesn't matter. Originally we were supposed to get DCS: A-10A, but ED got a contract for the 10C. There is no real duplication if they make a DCS version of the F-15C. They would be two very different aircraft in certain ways.

 

 

 

Did you see the majority of the community asking for a Ka-50 or A-10C?

 

Sigh.... you win GG, you win. You'd make a great lawyer.

[GGTharos]

I would be very surprised if it's not multirole. Because the overwhelming majority of people on this forum have been screaming for years for a multirole supersonic with AFM and complex systems modelling. In Ka-50, A-10C and P-51 ED hasn't yet delivered that. I suppose ED cares about what people want. Now it would be about time for a multirole.

 

There are at least two third parties working on multi-role aircraft.

 

For example, in F-18 in certain parts of the flight envelope if the pilot commands a roll, all control surfaces, LE flaps, flaperons, ailerons, stabilators and rudders will deflect. One can only imagine the challenge to build an AFM for such an aircraft.

 

My understanding is that there is a lot of NASA data for the F-18 and the F-15. I know that for the F-15, very accurate control system data is available from NASA. I don't know about the 18.

 

Speaking of F-104, is your signature a hint about ED's next DCS plane? :D

 

Wow ... someone finally noticed the sig after I don't know how long of me changing it. ;)

[Azazel]

If DCS releases an F-16, or a third party does, it would fare very well for DCS provided it is all AFM. Aside from the lack of a Dynamic Campaign, having the Viper would create a storm of pilots anxiously awaiting to fly an F-16 in DCS World. It would motivate me to learn the mission editor a lot more. The Viper has been home to many of us for more than a decade and somehow DCS overlooked that by not creating a multi-role fighter yet and has failed to make an announcement. I would even settle for a no we are not and that is why we have this third party project. Lets face it the Falcon Simulator was it and I think it is time to get back to that.

 

There is a terrain project in the works for BMS, as far as I know it still active, referred to as FLARE. If that releases and DCS still has only the A-10 it will once again create tension between the two groups. I would love to see BMS do a VIPER for DCS. BMS is without a doubt the most advanced sim I have ever flown next to A-10C. Aside from the dumb flame war between DCS and BMS, BMS is top notch. I have a lot of experience with Naval aviation and BMS is solid and rivals many modern operational sims today. I would love to see a merge of these awesome developers.

 

In closing, I have some reservations about the AFM and SFM debate. I hope that DCS does not become muddied as FSX is right now. There are thousands of add on worthless planes out there for FSX.

 

In my opinion, any aircraft in DCS should be as advanced as allowed and should never be simplified. If a developer releases a simplified aircraft only for DCS, welcome to combat FSX.

 

Well said sir. I couldn't agree more.

[Fox One]

There are at least two third parties working on multi-role aircraft.

 

Yes, but that might end up as some sort of second-class DCS. That ED is first-class is a certitude.

[NineLine]

Yes, but that might end up as some sort of second-class DCS. That ED is first-class is a certitude.

 

if they bare the DCS tag, dont count on that...

[mvsgas]

I wonder if this is relevant? Not smart enough to understand it

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20040110310_2004110103.pdf

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100030606_2010032995.pdf

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780003061_1978003061.pdf

Edited June 14, 2012 by mvsgas

[Executioner]

I wonder if this is relevant? Not smart enough to understand it

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20040110310_2004110103.pdf

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20100030606_2010032995.pdf

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780003061_1978003061.pdf

 

Interesting stuff :)

 

The 2nd and 3rd papers are both quite well reduced examples of attempts to model flight response to standard inputs, seemingly to provide exrta real-time safety and instrumentation system ideas for aircraft. I like the non-airflow-dependent modelling in the middle paper (they use it for ultra-high speed and transonic flight modelling, where the system being modelled may not have useful access to live airflow information).

 

Problem you would have is that they are all designed for in-envelope flight data - at altitudes outside of ground effect and in most cases with no extraneous elements on the aircraft (gear retracted, etc.) - so a flight model for general simulation use would have to have extra functions to cover these other aspects of the flight regime.

 

Anyone not too bothered about actual maths should take a look at the 3rd one - some general information about stores available (at the time of writing) for the F16 - look at the pretty pictures! ;)

 

Thanks for those - very interesting :)

 

Martin...

[WRAITH]

Well said sir. I couldn't agree more.

 

Yes, but that might end up as some sort of second-class DCS. That ED is first-class is a certitude.

 

If DCS releases an F-16, or a third party does, it would fare very well for DCS provided it is all AFM. Aside from the lack of a Dynamic Campaign, having the Viper would create a storm of pilots anxiously awaiting to fly an F-16 in DCS World. It would motivate me to learn the mission editor a lot more. The Viper has been home to many of us for more than a decade and somehow DCS overlooked that by not creating a multi-role fighter yet and has failed to make an announcement. I would even settle for a no we are not and that is why we have this third party project. Lets face it the Falcon Simulator was it and I think it is time to get back to that.

 

There is a terrain project in the works for BMS, as far as I know it still active, referred to as FLARE. If that releases and DCS still has only the A-10 it will once again create tension between the two groups. I would love to see BMS do a VIPER for DCS. BMS is without a doubt the most advanced sim I have ever flown next to A-10C. Aside from the dumb flame war between DCS and BMS, BMS is top notch. I have a lot of experience with Naval aviation and BMS is solid and rivals many modern operational sims today. I would love to see a merge of these awesome developers.

 

In closing, I have some reservations about the AFM and SFM debate. I hope that DCS does not become muddied as FSX is right now. There are thousands of add on worthless planes out there for FSX.

 

In my opinion, any aircraft in DCS should be as advanced as allowed and should never be simplified. If a developer releases a simplified aircraft only for DCS, welcome to combat FSX.

 

+ 100.000.000 here:smilewink::joystick::pilotfly:

 

The F-16 Fighting Falcon is a Superior and proven Fighter the Best in modern combat

 

Dying to See a DCS version of F4 all the F4 World we come running here with pleasure and a multitude of thanks.

 

Read here http://defense-update.com/features/du-1-04/feature-advanced-f-16.htm

 

The Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon .......... Forever Baby!:thumbup:

Edited June 14, 2012 by WRAITH

[SUBS17]

I guess my memory is pretty bad. Oh look, Eagle! :D

 

My guess is that the next aircraft is the F-15C. Here's the big hint:

 

Eagle Dynamics

 

...

 

 

 

:D

 

GGTharos stop winding everyone up lol, we both know its not going to be an F-15C as that is already in FC3.:thumbup: ED has already stated the next jet is a multirole US Fighter and its getting developed in parallel to the F-15E done by Iris.:D

So its still either a Hornet or Viper.:thumbup:

[WRAITH]

GGTharos stop winding everyone up lol, we both know its not going to be an F-15C as that is already in FC3.:thumbup: ED has already stated the next jet is a multirole US Fighter and its getting developed in parallel to the F-15E done by Iris.:D

So its still either a Hornet or Viper.:thumbup:

 

Hi Sub17 majority rules F-16, dont worry the day the F-16 is retired is the day the global Air Force structure disintegrates.....LoL

 

.............Its a REVIVAL CRUSADE OF F4........:smilewink:

 

F4 The MOTHER OF ALL COMBAT SIMS ....... it keeps re-spawning and people wonder why........LOL

Edited June 14, 2012 by WRAITH

[SUBS17]

There are at least two third parties working on multi-role aircraft.

 

 

 

My understanding is that there is a lot of NASA data for the F-18 and the F-15. I know that for the F-15, very accurate control system data is available from NASA. I don't know about the 18.

 

 

 

Wow ... someone finally noticed the sig after I don't know how long of me changing it. ;)

 

FM data is out there VRS did a very good job of the F/A-18E and there is the F18-EF-200 which is a good reference manual for performance.:thumbup:

[SUBS17]

Hi Sub17 majority rules F-16, dont worry!

 

Its a REVIVAL CRUSADE OF F4........:smilewink:

 

The MOTHER OF ALL COMBAT SIMS ....... LOL

 

F-16s rule dude.