Spetz Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 I've noticed this a few times, and a search didn't whow this.. A few times (perhaps all the time) when airborne, I notice that the flight indicator is always left wing down, even when trimmed straight and level. If I trim the indicator perfectly centred, I do a rather sharp right turn. If the flight indicator botched or is it inaccurate above certain altitudes. It made for a very interesting climb though the clouds on the long navigation mission in the campaign the other day..
DDSSTT Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Have you noticed that the two compasses also differ by 8-12 degrees..? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://www.csg-2.net/
cichlidfan Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 This may be relevant. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=87919&highlight=precession ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
effte Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Have you noticed that the two compasses also differ by 8-12 degrees..? Have you noticed the knob underneath the directional gyro, used to adjust it so it will match the magnetic remote compass? ;) (Yes, this is what most small-plane pilots do all the time in real life.) ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
lubey Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 The gyro drift does seem excessive to me. If you uncage the AI during start-up it's already like 30 degrees out by the time you even get to the runway for takeoff. But I'm sure it's just a WIP thing. Or who knows it might be realistic, maybe 1940s flight instruments are just that s**t. SPECS: Intel Core i5 760 @ 3.2 Ghz +turboboost enabled, 12 GB DDR3 1600 @ 1500 Mhz, ATI Radeon 5850, TrackIR 5, X52 Pro and Saitek pedals
effte Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Lubey, got a track? I'm not seeing anything of the kind. Is it off in pitch, bank or both for you? ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
Joe Kurr Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 I have noticed the same. If you uncage the indicator prior to taxiing to the runway, you will see it deviate when you make a turn. It will shift to left bank during left turns, and right bank in right turns. I think this is normal behaviour, since you're turning a gyro (see the thread cichlidfan linked). A solution would be to uncage the AI on the runway prior to takeoff. Dutch Flanker Display Team | LLTM 2010 Tiger Spirit Award
lubey Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Yes that's very true. In a sustained turn on the ground the gyro would slowly align itself into the inside of turn. However, I made a short track making a sustained turn to the left to investigate. Note the attitude indicator swings left AND right during different parts of the turn. Now, gyros are very unintuitive things and there is a change this is realistic if there are some crazy precession effects going on. But I don't think so because the gyros themselves just stay pointed in the same direction; the indicators work because the plane and therefore gimbals turn around the gyro. But more importantly, at the end when I'm sitting still, the AI doesn't re-align itself with the true vertical, despite very quickly doing so in the turn. Also look at the weird gyro compass oscillations at the end. Also the pitch of the AI has been affected by turning too.gyros.trk Edited June 12, 2012 by lubey SPECS: Intel Core i5 760 @ 3.2 Ghz +turboboost enabled, 12 GB DDR3 1600 @ 1500 Mhz, ATI Radeon 5850, TrackIR 5, X52 Pro and Saitek pedals
Tailspin45 Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 In RL, at low power settings, insufficient suction is created to spin gyro so it's not very accurate. Could it be that this is modeled? Blue Skies & Tailwinds tailspinstales.blogspot.com
effte Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Gyro spinup time was my first thought as well. Turns out this is not the case. Even after two minutes of high-power engine runup, with the suction well in the top range of the green, the effect persists. Ditto after a circuit, where the gyro should have had plenty of time to get up to speed. I think I have it nailed down though. On startup, the gyro aligns itself with the XY (horizontal) plane of the aircraft, rather than the true horizontal plane as it probably should. This results in the AI indicating the ground attitude as a bank angle as you turn 90 degrees to the either side, and as negative pitch if you turn 180 degrees around. In other words, the effect is due to gyro axis alignment in combination with heading changes rather than accelerations/yaw rates. Any devs or testers listening? This one in the tracker already? I somehow don't think they'd design the gyro to align itself with the airframe... OTOH, you never know! (BTW, this effect becomes very easy to perceive as I'm doing the merry-go-around thing on the runway after landing in the attached track.) Cheers, FredGyro spin.trk Edited June 12, 2012 by effte Clarification ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
DDSSTT Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Have you noticed the knob underneath the directional gyro, used to adjust it so it will match the magnetic remote compass? ;) (Yes, this is what most small-plane pilots do all the time in real life.) I got that but the Magnetic compass is the one that is reading incorrect. the runway headings are listed as Magnetic rounded to the 10th. so runway 08 is 80 degress, correct? this is what the directional gyro reads when landing at butumi but the magnetic compass (top left) reads a heading of ethier 65 or 105. I thought it was just my crab but I turned off all wind and was still reading the same. I will make a track this weekend when I have time. Also, I am experincing the same with the flight indicator as the other guys. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://www.csg-2.net/
effte Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 @DDSSTT: Hmmm... could be that the variation is still not accounted for the way it should. Gonna have a gander at that eventually. ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
cichlidfan Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 @DDSSTT: Hmmm... could be that the variation is still not accounted for the way it should. Gonna have a gander at that eventually. Not holding my breath on that one. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
effte Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Not holding my breath on that one. Naw, dunno why that one is so hard to track down. Seemed to be a wee bit more complex than one would have thought at first look though, with different errors all over the place rather than a single systematic error. I think they have a mag var matrix in the code somewhere which can either give you incredibly detailed map variation fitted to all the available data points and the earth magnetic model of choice, or very intricate and hard to track down errors. :D DDSSTT is right though - the magnetic headings (still) do not match the real world. The runway at Batumi is at 110 rather than 126. Ooops! No deviation chart or table in the manual as far as I can find either? (Metadata for future reference: P-51D v1.1.2.1) ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
159th_Viper Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Not holding my breath on that one. As confirmed previously, submitted to the Bug Tracker. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
lubey Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 No wonder my kneeboard chart & compass navigation attempts always were always so bad! SPECS: Intel Core i5 760 @ 3.2 Ghz +turboboost enabled, 12 GB DDR3 1600 @ 1500 Mhz, ATI Radeon 5850, TrackIR 5, X52 Pro and Saitek pedals
effte Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 As confirmed previously, submitted to the Bug Tracker. And the AI alignment issue... ? ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
159th_Viper Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) And the AI alignment issue... ? AI? The flight indicator? Will check. Acronyms give me hiccups...... Edited June 13, 2012 by 159th_Viper Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
effte Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 S'just TLAs and ETLAs. ;) Attitude Indicator, artificial horizon, horizon gyro... "flight indicator" is a new one to me. ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
159th_Viper Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 Ta :) Will have a looksee a wee bitty later when home. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
159th_Viper Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 And the AI alignment issue... ? Confirmed as present in the Bug Tracker. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
effte Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 Confirmed as present in the Bug Tracker. Thank you! ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
DDSSTT Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 This "Bug Tracker" you speak of... could you post it in the http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=87556 so we all know what has been reported..? I think that would save us all time. just my thought. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://www.csg-2.net/
billeinstein Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 On the manual page 60: "The horizon knob is used to adjust the horizon level." However it's turning the "Aircraft symbol" in the sim now. So you can never adjust the Flight Indicator correctly on the ground after uncaging it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
timc Posted January 4, 2013 Posted January 4, 2013 Can anyone verify my finding that the remote indicator compass still reads out by 12 or so degrees? I figured it would be more accurate than the gyro compass but it made my relatively short cross country flight very 'interesting'!
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