Guns and autopilot

[Couladin]

Every time i use the gun (specifically when i press "space" to shoot) i get a "warning autopilot" and nose pulls up, so i actually need to aim lower so the autopilot pulls the reticle on target.

 

How do i disable this ?

[HiJack]

You should switch the autopilot off before any engagement! There may be an issue with your key assignment also. Try doing the attach just by using the keyboard!

 

(HJ)

[Jona33]

If you're using PAC make sure you release PAC before pulling off target.

[cichlidfan]

You should switch the autopilot off before any engagement! There may be an issue with your key assignment also. Try doing the attach just by using the keyboard!

 

(HJ)

 

I would guess a control assignment issue as well since I can't imagine using autopilot, on purpose, during a gun run. ;)

[shagrat]

I suspect you are not familiar with the workings of SAS, EAS (Autopilot) and PAC (Precision Attitude Control), yet?

 

It seems you don't have PAC mapped to a button or do not use it.

 

When the GAU-8 fires the recoil is heavy and pushes the plane upwards around its horizontal/Wing axis (nose up!).

The enginous engineers invented PAC to use the "Autopilot" (EAC) to counter this when pulling the trigger.

 

So you need to understand these systems somewhat:

 

1. ensure EAC is active and armed (basically: no green lights lit on the board on the right hand console)

2. have PAC activated on the control panel below the LeftMFCD (to the right of the Master Arm)

3. understand the difference between PAC 1 and PAC 2... or simply put the PAC switch in the UP Position for starters.

4. assign a button to "PAC" if not already done, if your Stick supports double Trigger stages (like saitek X-52, or TM Warthog) have stage One as PAC

5. rotate and align the Gun piper with the target

6. Press and hold PAC (Autopilot will stabilize on the target... only tiny corrections now! Don't(!!!) use rudder pedals) let PAC fly the bird!)

7. when in range (still holding PAC) press the trigger (GUNS! GUNS! GUNS!)

8. release PAC and trigger and recover from the dive!

 

You will need some training until this is a fluent process. Usually you tend to fight PAC a lot, press it when not proper aligned, use pedals to compensate etc. ...at least I did when learning how to use it :D

[KaspeR32]

I remember having an issue a while ago regarding PAC. Something that lots of people fail to mention when aiming the the gun is this:

 

MAKE SURE YOUR AIRBRAKES ARE RETRACTED!!

 

As long as they're on, PAC does not work, which would cause the nose to pull up like you're saying and possibly give you an autopilot warning.

 

I tend lower my airspeed BEFORE the dive, then just put my throttle to idle during the dive. You'll build up speed quickly without being able to use your airbrakes but that's a good thing I've realized, you have a lot of velocity to escape after the attack run.

[nex]

Great advices, thanks! May I steal the thread for a moment?

 

I am currently practicing some gun /rocket/ runs over targets, but I cant seem to get it right. Most of the time I can see the target just after I push the nose down, during the dive. I often realise that the target is several degrees to the left/right, but Im having problems compensating. I tried banking, using the rudder, tried banking again - cant seem to get it right (Trigger isnt at 1st stage / PAC - im simply diving).

 

How am I supposed to do it? I want to learn it the right way :)

[Eddie]

:book:

How am I supposed to do it? I want to learn it the right way :)

 

Take a look at the gun & rocket delivery example vids at the YouTube link in my sig (can't remember if it's my account or the 476th but they are on both).

 

The most important thing is planning, find your target then plan now you intend to attack it and how you will egress afterwards.

 

The other most common mistake people make is they try to push the nose on to the target, don't. Always use positive G to manoeuvre the aircraft when in combat, negative G is bad m'kay.

 

KaspeR32 is correct about speed brakes, don't touch them. As for throttles, the general rule for weapon delivery is 0 - 30 degree dive = full power, 30 - 45 degrees = throttles at mid range and 45 - 60 degree dive = throttles to idle.

 

Remember a drunk monkey could fly the aircraft, it's fighting it that takes a lot of learning and practice.

[Couladin]

Mission starts in hangar, and i don't touch autopilot controls at all, so unless by default the sim has the space bar assigned to both guns and autopilot (i don't think it's even possible), keybinding is not an issue.

 

I do not have a stick, i'm using mouse and keyboard. It works great for me ;)

 

I have less than 10 hours in the A-10C. My "experience" if i can call it that, comes from Flaming Cliffs 2, where i have about 200 hours of flight, most of them spent in the F-15C, so shagrat you are correct assuming i'm not familair with SAS, EAS, and PAC.

 

So far my skills are:

- Start-up procedure

- Take off (easy enough haha)

- Follow waypoints

- Finding target either with the targeting pod or with the maverick's camera and killing it.

- CCRP deployment of precision ammunition.

- Landing

 

I think i can do CCIP as well but it's too dangerous to try, i prefer high altitude CCRP drops.

 

Anyway, back to the matter at hand, the recoil described by shagrat sounds like exactly what i experience, except that i also get the "warning autopilot" voice.

 

And no, i do not have airbreaks extended. I get the same behavior and warning even if i shoot at the sky in a 10 degree climb.

 

Edit: Reading my reply it might sound weird saying that CCIP is too dangerous yet i'm doing guns attacks, so i'll elaborate: Given the option of CCRP, i prefer it over CCIP. Only when i'm out of bombs and AGMs and don't have time to rearm, then i go for guns.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Siskin

[159th_Viper]

In the absence of a track, all we can do is guess, which helps neither of us. Could you post a track? Will guarantee a definitive answer :)

 

Edit: Run an air-start mission and see if the problem persists. If not, it points at a start-up error.

[shagrat]

Mission starts in hangar, and i don't touch autopilot controls at all, so unless by default the sim has the space bar assigned to both guns and autopilot (i don't think it's even possible), keybinding is not an issue.

 

I do not have a stick, i'm using mouse and keyboard. It works great for me ;)

Ok, that hints on not using PAC. Do you press and HOLD the button for PAC before pressing SPACE to fire?

Select/switch on for PAC is done with the mentioned flip switch, actually engaging/activating when aligned with the target is mapped to a different button.

 

Another question is: do you fly in Simulation mode or with Game mode avionics/flight model?

 

Usually anyone on this forum will think in terms of "full realism on" so it is important to mention if you fly in game mode. By the way, if you really manage the A-10C with mouse and keyboard, that's an astonishing feat.

Thumbs up and staring in awe... I had a tough time even with an X-52 to do complex runs.

[Couladin]

Do you press and HOLD the button for PAC before pressing SPACE to fire?

Nope.

 

Another question is: do you fly in Simulation mode or with Game mode avionics/flight model?

 

Simulation, except for easy comunication and external cams. Once i get more familiar with the A-10C i'll remove those as well.

By the way, if you really manage the A-10C with mouse and keyboard, that's an astonishing feat.

 

Thanks, i get that a lot in flaming cliffs 2, particularly in dogfights. But honestly, it feels quite easy, i never struggle.

 

 

 

In the absence of a track, all we can do is guess, which helps neither of us. Could you post a track? Will guarantee a definitive answer

http://www.mediafire.com/?8unrawujs32gdmm

 

Run an air-start mission and see if the problem persists. If not, it points at a start-up error.

 

I do not get the warning in an air-start mission. What em i doing so horibly wrong? :/

 

P.S. In the track, for the first time i bumped into another problem. The targeting pod was powered on, yet the MFCD said it's not. It didn't say "not timed out", it said not powered.

P.S.2 I was trying to select gun mode, but i forgot it's with "M" (Cycle through Master Modes) and instead i was trying to switch profiles with "page down", hoping to see a "guns" profile. So i fired anyway, and still got the autopilot warning.

P.S.3 Sorry for the weird zig-zaging on the taxiway and runway, i didn't go through all the steps to ensure maximum FPS just for take off and shoot the gun, so i had about 10 FPS until i got to 500 feet or so.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Siskin

[luza]

if your EAC is off, you will get an autopilot warning when trying to engage pac

[mingocr83]

Map PAC1 to your joystick before shooting, press the pac1 and then shoot, this will avoid this upward pitch attitude...

[Couladin]

Mapping will be to a key since i don't use a stick.

 

I'll test the PAC feature and see what it feels like, though i might not particularly like it.

 

As it is, without PAC, if i place the target at the top edge of the gun reticle bullets go exactly where i need em and i can still do course corrections.

[159th_Viper]

PAC is essential for engaging armour, ie MBT's.