Smaller sun for DCS World

[zzzspace]

Than just don't use any of the files in this thread - just switch "HDR" off in the menu...

because that is exactly what you have done with the "* 0.0 * HDR;" edit.

 

And than you will also have a right sized sun.:)

 

I just put your settings back in, and tried it with HDR off, and then on. The first time I tried the mod I used HDR warm colors, and that looks pretty bad (which is what got me playing with the light level), but I put it on HDR 'Normal' this time, and got much better results. :D

 

A small sun and good contrast with a good color range. You're a genious Pete! :)

 

EDIT: Just tried it with HDR Warm colours and it was fine. I must have had a corrupted file in my folders, because your mod now works fine on either HDR setting.

Edited August 8, 2012 by zzzspace

[PeterP]

Very nice!

Do you have results where the HDR still fills its purpose more?

I mean where the exposure kinda doesn't let me see all unlit areas and unlit bottom sides of aircrafts while I get blinded but still have your nice new sun size?

 

:)please RTF ReadMe again.

- and find your sweet-spot yourself.

I don't (wanna) know your used aspect-ratio and your preferred FOV while in the cockpit.

Hey ! I'M not a mentalist!:)

[Corrigan]

Hi Peter!

 

I just installed your mod and had a bit of a look around. I've found something a bit odd:

 

With your mod, when the sun is partially obstructed, you can still see the entire 'disc' in the .tga file:

 

 

It looks a bit strange.

 

Stock sun:

 

 

Maybe this is because the actual disc is bigger than the central disc in the ray image stock, but not with your mod?

[PeterP]

Believe me...

Its the best what the shaders (AFAIK) can deliver at given code...There is nothing I can do about it.

(I tested over 100 different settings...)

 

And again:

This mod purpose is not to take "nice pictures" in the first place -

It's to provide you the most realistic look while in cockpit and moving through the air...

preferable at a FOV between 60° to 90°

 

 

EDIT: the disk is a shader - there is only one TGA file visible on the sun - it's the Rays.tga in \Bazar\Effects\PostMotionEffect\HDR

 

The Sun.tga is only in action when using HDR=Off

 

You see the "disk" because the transparency settings of the clouds at the edge.

 

The same could be seen on the default 1.2.0 sun - well - if the Glow wouldn't be 6 times as big as the sun-disk at default

Edited August 8, 2012 by PeterP

[Corrigan]

Sure thing, I understand that, but it's not like this would be invisible from the cockpit. :)

I'm not demanding you fix it or anything, of course, just thought I'd share.

 

I also think I can fix it. I'll be back.

 

EDIT

 

The same could be seen on the default 1.2.0 sun - well - if the Glow wouldn't be 6 times as big as the sun-disk at default

 

Yeah, that's what I thought. So can we not make the rays.tga image so that the diameter of the 'disc' (ie the part where the rays start) is smaller than the sun? I'll try.

 

I know you're not trying to make 'pretty pictures', but some of us like those too, and it'd be great if we could build a mod which works for everyone. :)

 

EDIT 2: did you know that you can actually update rays.tga with the game running, and it'll display the change in real time? Awesome!

Edited August 8, 2012 by Corrigan

[Weltensegler]

:)please RTF ReadMe again.

- and find your sweet-spot yourself.

I don't (wanna) know your used aspect-ratio and your preferred FOV while in the cockpit.

Hey ! I'M not a mentalist!:)

 

Thanks for the expected answer.

I didn't RTFM and didn't even try the Mod.

I was just asking if you got those kind of results among your many test results.

But then never mind.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Weltensegler

[PeterP]

 

EDIT 2: did you know that you can actually update rays.tga with the game running, and it'll display the change in real time? Awesome!

 

No(AFAIK)... now you know why I needed about 60 restarts of the sim to get the TGA file as it is now.

 

And getting the Tga at the same size is also no solution - as a different shader of the HDR uses a copy of the same Rays.TGA , but a diffrent collerspectrum to Produce the reddish glow around the sun/sky at dusk/dawn.

Edited August 8, 2012 by PeterP

[Corrigan]

No... now you know why I needed about 60 restarts of the sim to get the TGA file as it is now.

 

And getting the Tga at the same size is also now solution - as a different shader of the HDR uses a copy of the same Rays.TGA , but a diffrent collerspectrum to Produce the reddish glow around the sun/sky at dusk/dawn.

 

Should that be 'not'? If so, that's too bad.

[PeterP]

It's just a really strange typo :)- should be a "no"

[aaron886]

Great work Peter (and Mustang!) Hopefully we can get ED to make this change themselves, and adjust the "glow" disk to match. Realism is the goal, not Lion-King-esque screenshots! It's a simulator after all.

 

http://underthebutton.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/windowslivewriterlionking-df21lion-king2-thumb1.jpg

[Chazz_BMF]

Looks good guys :thumbup:

 

[Corrigan]

By the way, Peter, is Mustang's ground brightness mod included in your sky.fx?

[Devrim]

I see a yellow ring around the sun. Is that normal?

[Corrigan]

Is that only Mustang's mod? If so, yes, as the old flare textures are not resized to fit the new sun. (I think)

 

PS: Peter, I understand if you're sick of the whole thing by now, but would you mind explaining why it wouldn't work with a rays.tga which is smaller than the sun? I know you said that the file is reused, but is there any specific reason that a file can't be made that will suit both situations?

 

Thanks.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Corrigan

[PeterP]

I see a yellow ring around the sun. Is that normal?

Yes - sort of...

I have already a version on my disk that doesn't show this effect.

But I thought this is a nice touch and simulates "sort of" what you also see when starring longer at the sun - as you can also distinguish between rays and the sun in RL when looking at it with wide open eyes.

BTW: when you can see this over a longer time period you should raise the HDR setting that is mentioned in the Readme. - it will disappear when the HDR effect kicks in.

well - it's hard to find the sweet-spot in the Ka-50...

... as much more screen-area is already darkened by the cockpit -

the HDR effect don't takes only the sun size/FOV in consideration when it happens to get darker.

The HDR effect depends also on "how dark" your overall screen is...

What looks nice and works in the P-51D/A-10C needs a higher "XX.0 * HDR" value in the Ka-50...

 

 

 

PS: Peter, I understand if you're sick of the whole thing by now, but would you mind explaining why it wouldn't work with a rays.tga which is smaller than the sun? I know you said that the file is reused, but is there any specific reason that a file can't be made that will suit both situations?

 

No - I'm not really sick of it (not yet :)) - but there is no small explanation.

It would fill some pages... and I didn't wanted to write a "book" about this -this can be easily found out and be seen by yourself when you create a e.g. chessboard template with a 20% and 40% covering and use it in different light-conditions.

So yourself can see easily how the TGA behaves.:)

This is would give you a much better impression how the things work than I ever could explain it to you.

 

>>> something similar like this pattern would be a good "Test" Rays.tga to see how it works in-game:

http://www.had2know.com/images/3-player-chess.png

 

 

By the way, Peter, is Mustang's ground brightness mod included in your sky.fx?

 

We both already PMed about this.

 

After a little testing phase we will update this mod in a unified package.

 

Example:I'm already searching for a way to also tune the "sun-reflection" down (yes- I'm talking of that plasma in the water...).

And instated of updating it each day I will give the things a little time and collect your suggestions/impressions/feedback.

 

Any kind of feedback is welcome and keep it coming!

(There aren't any stupid questions... - its always the answer that let the question look stupid! :))

Right now is the "Realistic Sun" 1.2.0 build to be used without the Sky.fx file of Mustang.

Will release early next week a update that will include Mustang's fix.

Edited August 9, 2012 by PeterP

[zzzspace]

Realism is the goal, not Lion-King-esque screenshots! It's a simulator after all.

 

And said realism is why simulating real-world light and color should always be aimed for, as well. ;)

[Corrigan]

Thanks for the reply, Pete. Honestly, I can't see any non-trivial difference between the different sizes of rays.tga. Here are two screens I took, just before the sun sets, at the same place with their respective .tgas.

 

 

 

 

 

Note that both .tgas are 512*512, it's just the coverage that varies.

 

I've been unable to see any effects of changing the coverage apart of course from the trivial one. Am I missing something?

 

EDIT: For completeness, here are some midday shots:

 

 

 

It seems there is a difference in how it's used, as you say. In full daylight, the white 'background' is opaque (you can see that it covers parts of the aircraft), and in low-light conditions white seems to be taken as transparent. It's quite a clever system!

 

However, I still don't see why we can't have a rays.tga with a central disc-part which is smaller than the sun.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Corrigan

[71st_Mastiff]

thank you Pete! :thumbup:

[Ali Fish]

Great work Peter (and Mustang!) Hopefully we can get ED to make this change themselves, and adjust the "glow" disk to match. Realism is the goal, not Lion-King-esque screenshots! It's a simulator after all.

 

http://underthebutton.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/windowslivewriterlionking-df21lion-king2-thumb1.jpg

 

lol ive removed it all because i just hate it all. just simple sun disc for me. no halo, no rays. just a sun in the sky. my virtual visor or virtual aviator sunglasses cuts out most of that anyway !

[PeterP]

It seems there is a difference in how it's used, as you say. In full daylight, the white 'background' is opaque (you can see that it covers parts of the aircraft), and in low-light conditions white seems to be taken as transparent. It's quite a clever system!

 

However, I still don't see why we can't have a rays.tga with a central disc-part which is smaller than the sun.

Seems you used my "example" image just out of the box without editing at all the needed transparency...

 

Please examine the original Rays.tga again - and set your used test-pattern also in this same way up

= no white background.

Edited August 9, 2012 by PeterP

[PeterP]

Got some e-mails/PM's regarding where to put the files - here is one of them:

Hay PeterP

 

I'm interested in the Sun Fix, ( I always thought it was a little overboard any way!) I wanted to send you a private message and ask for some more detailed information to where you put the downloaded files? I opened the "skyQuad.fx" file with notepad ++ and looked at line #49. All I could see on that line was a number that had a value of 24.0 next to the HDR... was i suppose to change that value to the 90.0 that as you had instructed?

 

Information as to how to get the fix installed correctly was a bit confusing to me. Was i suppose to replace the entire "Bin" file with the one you uploaded? because the existing "Bin" file has many more files in it than the one you posted!!

 

 

 

part of the ReadMe:

>>> http://files.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/214328/

Place 'Bazar' in DCS World

In detail :

(and only one method of many others ways to do it "right")

 

When you have unzipped "Realistic Sun 1.2.0" you will find a "Bazar" folder .

 

>right click this folder

>

copy

>

go to your DCS World 1.2.0 install - example path: C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World

>

right click again and select "paste"

and agree to all changes.

 

viola!

Edited August 9, 2012 by PeterP

[Corrigan]

Seems you used my "example" image just out of the box without editing at all the needed transparency...

 

Please examine the original Rays.tga again - and set your used test-pattern also in this same way up

= no white background.

 

Indeed, I did not edit it. What I found out still stands, though, right? The engine changes the transparency of the .tga dependent on lighting desired, or that's at least the way it seems to me.

 

So what you said earlier,

 

And getting the Tga at the same size is also no solution - as a different shader of the HDR uses a copy of the same Rays.TGA , but a diffrent collerspectrum to Produce the reddish glow around the sun/sky at dusk/dawn.

 

refers to that use of different transparency? If so, I still don't see any issue with making this part (green highlight):

 

 

smaller than the actual sun. Maybe I'm being an idiot, but I don't think so.

[PeterP]

refers to that use of different transparency?

 

yes.

If so, I still don't see any issue with making this part (green highlight):

 

so please do it and see what happens - practical experience is 100 times more worth than any theory.

 

as I wrote before :

No - I'm not really sick of it (not yet ) - but there is no small explanation.

It would fill some pages... and I didn't wanted to write a "book" about this -this can be easily found out and be seen by yourself when you create a e.g. chessboard template with a 20% and 40% covering and use it in different light-conditions.

So yourself can see easily how the TGA behaves.

This is would give you a much better impression how the things work than I ever could explain it to you.

[Corrigan]

I haven't done that, not because I'm lazy -- I've tried to go basically as close as I can without actually making an entire new .tga in the way I'm suggesting -- but because I'm no graphical designer.

I've done tests with resized versions of your rays, and the stock rays, and other images I've found online, and I have in no way found any issue with that solution. (Other than them not looking very nice due to them not filling the entire 512^2 pixel^2 image.)

Furthermore, the stock .tga has an (ill defined) disc which is smaller than the stock sun - does that work stock but not with your mod?

 

In any case, a quick and dirty job with the smudge tool produced this (jpg export):

 

 

In comparison to yours:

 

 

 

This is what it looks like half hidden:

 

 

Compared to yours:

 

 

This is, IMO, a fix to the problem I described before. Obviously my .tga is crap, which makes it look a bit uneven, but that could be done properly.

 

Now, I'm trying to find this issue you're talking about.

 

a) Midday

 

Still 'blinded' here. Nothing much happens when the HDR kicks in.

 

 

 

b) Low-light

 

This is juuust before the sun sets:

 

 

 

 

Honestly, I can't see any problem. I haven't tested as much as you, but I've probably spent 5 h experimenting today and yesterday, and if it was immediately obvious I should have seen it.

 

 

 

 

PS: could someone perhaps attatch the \Bazar\Effects\PostMotionEffect\HDR\glow.png, as I've lost my original. Thanks!

Edited August 9, 2012 by Corrigan

[PeterP]

-

 

I see a yellow ring around the sun. Is that normal?

Yes - sort of...

I have already a version on my disk that doesn't show this effect.

But I thought this is a nice touch and simulates "sort of" what you also see when starring longer at the sun - as you can also distinguish between rays and the sun in RL when looking at it with wide open eyes.

.....

 

After a little testing phase we will update this mod in a unified package.

 

btw -your images are have a complete different zoom level - so it is not directly comparable when talking about the HDR effects.

 

 

Compared to yours:

 

 

Please attach a track and tell me on which resolution and/or aspect-ratio and time in track you have made this picture and I will have a look.
Edited August 9, 2012 by PeterP