Shot down an apache.

[sjpateys]

As the title suggests I shot down an Apache the other day. It wasn't armed with Hellfires, I hasten to add, because I changed the loadout in the ME.

 

I was quite chuffed, nevertheless.

 

Is it mainly a fluke to shoot one of these things down? or are there people who down 'em on a regular basis?

 

I would love to know!

 

We should have a Poll!! LOL

 

P.S. the cobras are mean as hell too. They are very hard to acquire visually, it seems to me.

[Bushmanni]

It's quite possible to beat them in a gun fight or missile fight pretty much always as long as you don't fumble anything and follow the correct procedure. The main problem is to find them before it's too late. In a missile fight there's not that much time to find the Apache after laser warning before his hellfire catches you.

 

General air-to-air preparation is to dim the HUD and HMS so that they are as dim as possible while still easily readable. This way you can see the target and shell tracers better when using HMS.

 

If you know there's enemy attack helicopters around you should have some plan prepared on what to do when you find them and what to do if they find you first. If you get laser warning from a possibly airborne platform try to find it by scanning it visually with max zoom. If you can't find it in 15 seconds or the laser warning goes to guidance mode immediately extend with maximum speed and fly away until enough time has passed from not getting laser warning anymore that you have enough time to reverse and find the bugger before he's in range again. If you still can't find him and you get the guidance warning extend again and repeat until you succeed. You can also use this tactic to bleed the AI aircraft out of missiles and get an easy kill but it will be time consuming. You will need to constantly reset the LWR to know when the laser isn't painting you anymore.

 

You can find enemy helicopters from quite far away with Shkval if you know their approximate location. Get low enough to skyline the possible enemy helos against sky or distant mountains that give a nice high contrast to any flying dots. Scan by moving the display incrementally stopping it to see any movement. They will be quite visible in Shkval even from 30km out but of course you can't usually tell what the dot is, only that it's there. Don't just fly towards the enemy when you find him as he might be around some AD units that will shoot you down when you are focused on him. Attack with a sound plan.

 

Missile procedure goes as follows. Trim for level flight at the same altitude with enemy or slightly lower, master arm to arm, select outer pylons, laser off, A-A mode on, salvo length long, firing consent to manual, auto turn to target on, HMS on. Find the target, target him with Shkval and lock him up. When you get laser warning, turn on your laser and measure range. Fire two missiles at the same time as the enemy. The Vikhr is much faster than hellfire so you will get him well before the hellfire is even near you. If your missiles miss for some reason you could try to dodge the hellfires with a well timed sharp climb but most probably you will get killed. When and if you can see the hellfire in the Shkval it's good time to do the rapid climb maneuver. Your main priority should be to dodge the enemy missiles and after surviving that to fire a new pair of your own missiles.

 

Gun procedure: Trim for level flight at 200-250km/h, master arm to arm, select gun, laser on, A-A mode on, turn to target on, HMS on, gun ROF to slow, gun ammo to HE. Find the target and lock him up with Shkval. After initial range measurement the range reading might become erroneous with time as the rangefinder fire only for three seconds and after that range is estimated by an algorithm meant for ground targets. Fire the range finder manually if the range reading seems to jump suddenly or creep too fast or slow or it seems off for some reason. When the target is about 2km away fire the range finder and immediately after that open fire. Apache will open fire at 1.5km so be ready to dodge his tracers by rolling 45 degrees to either side while pointing nose to target if he manages to get some shots off. It's useless to fire farther than 2km as the firing computer doesn't consider the targets approach speed and he will be too much closer to you when shells arrive at the point where computer aimed that they will overfly the target. At 2km the trajectory is flat enough and time of flight short enough to score a hit despite this. Using high ROF is also useless as at that range the gun recoil will spoil the aim sufficiently that you won't score as many hits on target as with low ROF. Against aircrafts only direct hits count as missed shells will fly harmlessly past the target. When he gets hit he will immediately abort the attack and do an evasive maneuver. At this point you should try to maintain the lock, keep firing and simultaneously try to get behind him using lag pursuit.

 

After 90 degree turn he will "recover" from the evasive maneuver and try to engage you again and if you happen to be inside the guns traverse sector you will be toast. You will need high speed to get behind him before he recovers. If he's still flying at this point and you have lost lock on him, turn laser off and and finish him by aiming the gun with HMS. Laser must be turned off or the firing computer will "adjust" the gun aim with erroneous range data and overshoot the target or prohibit firing entirely. If HMS feels too hard then use fixed forward mode by resetting the targeting computer. With practice the HMS is more effective method though.

 

These procedures are meant to be used against AI helicopters. They completely disregard proper tactics and over emphasize weapons delivery as that's all that matters against current AI.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Or he can fire the cannon without shkval designation and use the HMS for tracking and adjusting fire, with laser desig ON, never look at shkval when engaging air targets, if you've locked him , that's nice, but, trust me, don't EVER look at the shkval with an air target your eyeballs spotted/tracked.

[Bushmanni]

I made couple of tracks showing the gun and missile procedure. There's couple of fumbles in both of them but got the job done anyways. In the gun version I forgot to switch to high ROF in the end game but fortunately got good hits with the few shots I got and brought him down for good. In the missile version I got distracted for a while and forgot to turn on laser soon enough and got my missiles off a bit late but not too late. It was still a bit more close call than I would prefer.

 

With the latest version the Apache will open fire only at 1km and at that point you can't dodge it. But you do have more time to score a hit on him.

AtoA with guns.trk

AtoA with missiles.trk

Edited August 6, 2012 by Bushmanni
added the remark about apache max gun use range

[sjpateys]

Thanks for replies. helpful posts they were

[Bucic]

I suggest you find the dedicated helo vs helo thread on the subject. It includes tips on dealing with apaches.

[Devrim]

I made couple of tracks showing the gun and missile procedure.

Nice tracks and very nice pilot job. I like that. :)

[Bushmanni]

The video has an example of aiming Vikhrs with HMS. I had trouble locking the second Apache or following him with ministick with previous attempts as the range reading would start reading wrong and Shkval would go crazy because of it. It would be so nice if this range estimation feature would get disabled in AtoA mode. Anyway I tried aiming with HMS instead and it worked like a charm.

 

[Devrim]

Very nice, great done! Watching it was exciting. :)

 

Well, could you please share the trk file?

[Bushmanni]

Sure, but I use the centered HMS reticle mod so it won't play back correctly without it.

Ka-50 vs. 4x Apache.trk

[Devrim]

Ok, I see.

Thank you.

[Puddlemonkey]

 

General air-to-air preparation is to dim the HUD and HMS so that they are as dim as possible while still easily readable. This way you can see the target and shell tracers better when using HMS.

 

I have the declutter HUD switch mapped to my HOTAS Throttle - I find this a useful alternative to constantly fiddling with the knob in front of me.

 

A couple of other things I have found useful:

 

1. I watch the enemy with the SHKVAL keeping it centred slightly off the target, avoiding locking it until in range and ready to fire. Thus he is not alerted by my laser. If I need range, I lock onto ground below him briefly.

 

2. Fire missiles in pairs. I find the first nearly always misses and the second nearly always gets him!

 

3. Make sure you use the AA and Head-On target modes correctly. I continue to correct this as I watch him, even after launch. So if I have head-on selected and he turns side on, I deactivate it. I don't know whether this actually achieves anything though.

 

4. Be a ninja. Make sure he doesn't see you. Watch him, bide your time, pick your moment and then pounce. Oh and keep an eye on where enemy territory is, avoiding chasing him into enemy territory.

 

I think when you have practiced, it's not so hard to take a pair of them out. The other thing to bear in mind is the KA-50 can easily outrun them.

[roob]

How do you slave the shkval to your HMS? :O

[Boulund]

You keep the correct button pressed. I actually think it's the letter "O" in the default configuration (which is funny because it's the last letter in your post ;)).

[Bucic]

You keep the correct button pressed. I actually think it's the letter "O" in the default configuration (which is funny because it's the last letter in your post ;)).

Just remember not to have laser range finder armed then. It may overheat after multiple measurements.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[roob]

You keep the correct button pressed. I actually think it's the letter "O" in the default configuration (which is funny because it's the last letter in your post ;)).

 

Oh, that's bad... I'll never be able to do that with my joystick configuration :huh:

[Devrim]

Just remember not to have laser range finder armed then. It may overheat after multiple measurements.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I use this technique, but I've never got any warning or failure about overheating. If we're talking about Ka-50.

 

Is that simulated in game?

[Bucic]

 

Is that simulated in game?

Totally.

[Bushmanni]

There's no overheat warning for laser, or any other temperature measurement system for it. You just wait for the cooling cycles and thats it. Laser fires only when you release the uncage Shkval or "O" button so no fear of overheating the laser by continuously slaving Shkval to HMS.

[Devrim]

Yes. That's what I know, too.

[marcos]

I get an Apache here from about 4+km with a proximity fused Vikhr M. It seems to be overly difficult to lock even when they are in the gate. Shame you can't use mouse buttons for lock and designate.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1543025&postcount=5

[marcos]

Oh, that's bad... I'll never be able to do that with my joystick configuration :huh:

It could do with being on a mouse button.

 

The video has an example of aiming Vikhrs with HMS. I had trouble locking the second Apache or following him with ministick with previous attempts as the range reading would start reading wrong and Shkval would go crazy because of it. It would be so nice if this range estimation feature would get disabled in AtoA mode. Anyway I tried aiming with HMS instead and it worked like a charm.

 

How on earth were you locking and launching Vikhrs that fast and 2 at a time?

Edited September 3, 2012 by marcos

[159th_Viper]

It seems to be overly difficult to lock even when they are in the gate.....

 

Tracking a Longbow:

 

 

Reduce your tracking gate size.

 

 

....2 at a time?

 

ДЛ-СР-КР switch (Long-medium-short weapon mode). Long and Medium launch 2 Vikhrs simultaneously.

[marcos]

ДЛ-СР-КР switch (Long-medium-short weapon mode). Long and Medium launch 2 Vikhrs simultaneously.

Nice, I thought that was just for cannon.

 

Is there a launch authority override in the Ka-50?

[MTFDarkEagle]

Nice, I thought that was just for cannon.

 

Is there a launch authority override in the Ka-50?

Yep, left most switch same row.