Unguided bombs - seldom hit target...

[Hoggorm]

Hi,

I'm having trouble using unguided bombs effectively, both in CCIP and CCRP mode.

First, to perhaps find out if I do something wrong:

In CCIP mode I basically dive onto the target and place the pipper over the target and release the bombs. The bombs will usually hit a good distance from where I placed the pipper and released the bombs...

In CCRP mode I use the TGP to define a SPI, and while flying at a couple of thousand feet and above using Mk82 or about 500 ft using Mk82AIR. I align the PBRL with the ASL and as the solution cue goes through the pipper, the bombs are released automatically as I hold down the weapons release button. As far as I know there is no other way to release the bombs in CCRP mode? Hence the bombs are dropped at the optimal place in the air to hit the target? Anyway, the bombs usually hit well away from the target marked as SPI with the TGP, not hurting the target at all.

Usually I drop two bombs in pairs. I assume this is perhaps because the A-10 computer does not account for wind? But then the question is: how do I deploy the bombs effectively? On what targets should I consider using an unguided bomb, instead of a guided bomb?

Thank you.

[Jona33]

Basically, Mk-82's/4's are only for open targets that don't require absolute precision. Don't bother trying to drop them on tanks. Also the weapon effects are severely reduced since no frag is modeled in the game. With unguided bombs I prefer ripple sgl with two bombs spaced maybe 50 feet apart which gives a good chance of results.

[TurboHog]

Go to the Laste page and enter wind layers and details. I can drop 82's from 10000 ft in windy conditions and kill a soft target with high probability... For example in DRAGON's Weapon training mission I can almost directly hit a target in the 24kts crosswind using two layers with the same wind details.

 

Instructions:

 

Go to the System - LASTE page.

 

- Enter two or more layers ranging from desired release altitude to ground level. Format XX, so 0 ft is 00; 10000ft is 10; etc.

 

- Click to OSB next to where it sais 'Both'. This will allow you to only use wind or temperature correction or leave it on Both if you want to use wind and temperature corrections. (I get good results using wind corrections only)

 

- Go to windedit and enter the winds for all layers in format Hdg/Speed XXX/XX so winds 230@20 kts = 23020. enter temperature if you want to use it in your calculations.

 

- Drop CCRP or CCIP

 

Tip for CCIP: Never release when there is a cross in your pipper. It means the actual release point is not on the HUD. Make a steeper dive and make sure the MRS (minimum range staple) is above the pipper. See manual for details.

Edited August 17, 2012 by TurboHog

[Hoggorm]

I'll write my own instructions:

 

Go to the System - LASTE page.

 

- Enter two or more layers ranging from desired release altitude to ground level. Format XX, so 0 ft is 00; 10000ft is 10; etc.

 

- Click to OSB next to where it sais 'Both'. This will allow you to only use wind or temperature correction or leave it on Both if you want to use wind and temperature corrections. (I get good results using wind corrections only)

 

- Go to windedit and enter the winds for all layers in format Hdg/Speed XXX/XX so winds 230@20 kts = 23020. enter temperature if you want to use it in your calculations.

 

- Drop CCRP or CCIP

 

Tip for CCIP: Never release when there is a cross in your pipper. It means the actual release point is not on the HUD. Make a steeper dive and make sure the MRS (minimum range staple) is above the pipper. See manual for details.

 

Great! I'll try this.

 

But where do you find information about the wind at the various altitudes in a mission and the campaign?

[TurboHog]

Great! I'll try this.

 

But where do you find information about the wind at the various altitudes in a mission and the campaign?

 

ATC, Briefing, JTAC or ask a KA-50 pilot on teamspeak for wind at ground level.

 

And the wind is indicated for your current altitude on the page itself before you enter anything. I use this information for calculations most of the time and sometimes you have to estimate what the wind at ground level could be if the options previously mentioned are not available...

[Hoggorm]

Thank you :)

[FreeFall]

Wind Correcting -thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1089008#post1089008

[Hoggorm]

Wind Correcting -thread:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1089008#post1089008

 

Thank you!

[oceanoftimeGER]

I actually have a follow-up question. Do these settings only affect particular bombs such as the Mk-82 or GBU-12 or any bombs that are used in CCRP mode?

 

I'm also wondering whether wind changes over time or if it stays the same for the duration of a mission.

[FreeFall]

GBU-12 is laser guided, so no need for wind correction AFAIK.

[Pyroflash]

Any bombs, however usually it is not needed for things like CBU-105/103's or any GBU series weapons as they have guidance kits that will preclude anything the LASTE calculations can provide them. If it is REALLY windy (and you are using a high HOF, >1600 ft.), and you are using CBU-103/105's though, I would suggest putting the info into the LASTE. It will let your submunitions drift towards the target instead of away from it.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Pyroflash

[TurboHog]

GBU-12 is laser guided, so no need for wind correction AFAIK.

 

But you want to ensure that a minimum amount of corrections are required for accuracy. So dropping CCRP aided by LASTE ballistic calculations is still a good idea because you want to lase 8-10 seconds before impact and not any sooner.

[Hoggorm]

So dropping CCRP aided by LASTE ballistic calculations is still a good idea because you want to lase 8-10 seconds before impact and not any sooner.

 

A bit off topic, but why will you not lase any longer?

[xxJohnxx]

I think it is because of the flight path.

When dropped it will fall balisticly like an ungided bomb. Once it is practically somewhere above the target, and you start to lase 10 seconds before impact, it will drop nicely downwards, the GBU is then pretty much alligned vertically.

But if you lase shortly after release, it won't fly like an unguided bomb. It starts to follow the laser signal as soon as the seeker is able to see it. This could cause that the bomb would leave the nice parabel because it wants to fly directly to the target like a missile. However the GBU isn't a missile and when dropped from an A-10 it isn't nearly as fast as a missile would be.

This makes the bomb falling, as it probably doesn't have the best flight charactaristics, short of the target.

 

I don't know if this is 100 % correct, at least I can imagine that this would be a reason for the laser time of 8-10 seconds.

[Razor5-1]

If I enter 6000ft into the Wind edit in the laste, it enters 3000 instead, anybody know why? or If I enter 2000 I get "input error" there are others errors that I get 7000 and 0 is the only one that seems to work

[grandkodiak]

"or ask a KA-50 pilot on teamspeak for wind at ground level."

 

lols

[Hoggorm]

I don't know if this is 100 % correct, at least I can imagine that this would be a reason for the laser time of 8-10 seconds.

 

Sounds reasonable. Thank you.

[Jona33]

It's also partly down to the "bang bang" method of guidance used where the guidance fins can only be nothing or at full, this slams the bomb from side to side and obviously uses a lot of energy. I believe more modern LGB's don't have this problem and can be lased from release.

[FreeFall]

I always (auto)lase for 10 secs. Perfect hit every time. 12 000 ft or something like that.

[TurboHog]

I think it is because of the flight path.

When dropped it will fall balisticly like an ungided bomb. Once it is practically somewhere above the target, and you start to lase 10 seconds before impact, it will drop nicely downwards, the GBU is then pretty much alligned vertically.

But if you lase shortly after release, it won't fly like an unguided bomb. It starts to follow the laser signal as soon as the seeker is able to see it. This could cause that the bomb would leave the nice parabel because it wants to fly directly to the target like a missile. However the GBU isn't a missile and when dropped from an A-10 it isn't nearly as fast as a missile would be.

This makes the bomb falling, as it probably doesn't have the best flight charactaristics, short of the target.

 

I don't know if this is 100 % correct, at least I can imagine that this would be a reason for the laser time of 8-10 seconds.

 

True. You preserve some energy and increase the flexibility of the bomb. When you instantly lase it will follow a straight path to the target, losing energy and possibly falling short.

 

I've seen a nice picture of this somewhere. Can't remember where though.

 

The altitude entry changes here as well. I don't know why that is actually. Usually I change my release altitude according to the will of my CDU.

 

EDIT:

 

Found it:

 

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1501131&postcount=6

Edited August 17, 2012 by TurboHog

[AtaliaA1]

Turbo you hit it right on the head.

 

Take a look at this thourough explination and example of your theory.

 

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

I've done a tutorial for CCIP Mk-82 slick delivery. Check it out here

 

[BlueRidgeDx]

That big "X" superimposed over the CCIP Pipper means that you're outside of the acceptable parameters set in the weapon profile. It means you're either going to violate the MIN ALT, violate the required TOF for fuzing, or you're going to violate the Real Time Safe Escape (RTSE) value - i.e. you're risking getting hit with your own frag.