Syrian Army helicopter downed in Damascus

[Shaman]

http://rt.com/news/syria-government-helicopter-crash-623/

 

Machine is broken apart and engulfed in raging flames before it hits the ground. Was it shot down? Wreck seems to fall from height. What weapon was used, what do you think? It seems helicopter was too high to be effectively reached by small ground fire, so maybe he was hit by man-pad or some AAA?

[Echo38]

Ugh. That "Allah akbar" crap is creepy as heck. Especially, I guess, from those children. Worse than hearing the U.S. soldiers laughing over their kills (and that's pretty disturbing already).

 

I wonder why the helicopter wasn't autorotated--the rotors looked & sounded functional. I bleakly suspect that the pilot was burning on the way down--otherwise I would have expected some visible attempt at autorotation.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Echo38

[Kuky]

Allahu Akbar (Arabic: الله أكبر) is a phrase, called Takbir in Arabic, meaning "God is greater" or "God is [the] greatest" so its meaning as bad as it sounds ;)

[Echo38]

I know what it means. That's what makes it so creepy. It'd be every bit as disturbing if it were spoken in English.

 

They shout it whenever they kill someone. Are they trying to minimize feelings of guilt by telling themselves that their god wanted the death to happen? Or are they rejoicing that they've killed a supposed enemy of their god? Whichever it is, it's horrible and it proves that they're absolutely nuts. Religious fanatics are dangerous, and religious fanatics with missile launchers are scarier than spiders. (And small children who aspire to be the latter--perhaps scarier still.)

 

Not, mind you, that I'm siding with the helicopter pilot--for all I know, he could have been another religious fanatic who shouted about his own god while he killed people from his helicopter. He might have been a good man, and he might have been a bad man. It is irrelevant; whenever I see one of these videos of these zealots killing someone while chanting "our god is great"--whether a SAM kill, or a torturous stoning of some woman who wasn't as chaste as some book demands she be--I am appalled.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Echo38

[Kuky]

No, they are praising/thanking their God for granting them to kill their enemy (in this case). I think this is quite normal as in any religion people pray to their "version" of the God for when something good happens to them or when they are praying for something to happen. And any fanatic is dangerous religios or not and people don't realise what its like to experience war first hand (not just to have their contry send soldiers to another country far away) and they don't realise how "normal" it is for people to act in such conditions as human nature is the same anywhere (when it comes to survival instincts and fighting for your life and rights)

Edited August 31, 2012 by Kuky

[Echo38]

Well, I dunno. I'm the kind of guy who is way more creeped out when a character in a movie quotes the Bible as he's killing people, than I am when the character simply kills people. Doubly so I.R.L. (Your results may vary.)

[Echo38]

Any educated guesses as to why the helicopter pilot was unable to autorotate, other than my grim assessment at top?

[Rotorhead]

Well, I dunno. I'm the kind of guy who is way more creeped out when a character in a movie quotes the Bible as he's killing people, than I am when the character simply kills people. Doubly so I.R.L. (Your results may vary.)

 

It's no matter which god's name you call while killing somebody. It's always bad thing.

Generally, relligions are used by the people to justify anything they do, may it be killing, raping or torturing others. In the name of their god, people are able to do horrible things they would never do if they were just following their basic conscience.

 

Any educated guesses as to why the helicopter pilot was unable to autorotate, other than my grim assessment at top?

 

Because the helo was one huge ball of fire even before ground impact, i suppose your grim assessment might be quite right.

 

Although, don't consider my guess educated...

[BTTW-DratsaB]

Heh, I don't find the Allahu Akbar too odd or disturbing. Have you ever watched a western video (ahem..read American :D )where some thing of great significance/ or traumatic is occurring? All you hear is Oh My God, Oh My God, Oh My God, Oh My God...

 

Not really a hundred miles away from Allahu Akbar, it makes me smile when I notice it in videos these days.

 

Ps please read as an interesting observation on culture rather than poking fun :thumbup:.

[Echo38]

It's no matter which god's name you call while killing somebody. It's always bad thing.

 

Yeah. That's what I was getting at. "Allah akbar" while killing someone or quoting the Bible while killing someone, either way it's totally messed up. I don't expect soldiers to soberly reflect on the enemy's humanity during combat, so I'm not as hard as my instincts would me be on the soldiers you see in footage who laugh as the rocket/cannon blows up their enemy (it's still more than a bit unsettling, of course). But the religious thing is an entirely new level of alarming; I get the impression that these religious nutters generally don't get PTSD over their killings the way the laughing soldiers often do. (Religion has this weird tendency to provide a psychological anesthetic which even military indoctrination cannot match.)

 

Have you ever watched a western video (ahem..read American)where some thing of great significance/ or traumatic is occurring? All you hear is Oh My God, Oh My God, Oh My God, Oh My God...

Not really a hundred miles away from Allahu Akbar

 

Really a huge difference--apples and oranges, so to speak. "Oh my god" is a figure of speech and is not literal; it is used by non-religious people as well, and does not actually refer to a belief in a deity. But, even more importantly, when someone shouts "Oh my god!" when someone dies, this is an expression of shock and not of triumph. Massive difference. Taken in context, one's a non-literal, non-religious expression of shock, the other is a literal, religious expression of rejoicing.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Echo38

[Aries]

Where is this thread going? Is this the religion class?

 

Echo you would also scream any God's name if your life was at stake... it's you or the foe and of course that you pray your God is with you, and of course you thank your God if you live...

[Echo38]

Please do not tell me what I will say--you're making an incorrect assumption about my beliefs and my character. I agree that this topic of conversation has strayed too far into that banal realm of religious debate; I will not be participating further in said religious argument. I'm still curious if anyone can put light on exactly what happened during this helicopter shoot-down (e.g. Syrian equivalent of an FAA report).

[Devrim]

I agree with Echo38. There're many radical Islamic groups that killing people easly while yelling "Allahu Ekber". Because their "book" dictates that you may kill somebody for your god if enemy is not Muslim.

 

I think someones need to know much things about dark side of the religion that believed in that area.

 

OK. I don't desire this goes into religion discussion thread either. But I had to write...

Edited August 31, 2012 by Devrim

[marcos]

When confronted with a large enemy force I would personally pray to the FAE god.

 

Interestingly the best AAA the rebels have is 14.5mm, so the chances of the Hind being shot down seem low. Allah knows, they would never have shot down a DCS Ka-50.:D

 

Claim they've shot down a MiG too now.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/syria-revolt-against-oppressive-regime-morsi-iran-084827214.html

Edited August 31, 2012 by marcos

[BTTW-DratsaB]

Really a huge difference--apples and oranges, so to speak. "Oh my god" is a figure of speech and is not literal; it is used by non-religious people as well, and does not actually refer to a belief in a deity. But, even more importantly, when someone shouts "Oh my god!" when someone dies, this is an expression of shock and not of triumph. Massive difference. Taken in context, one's a non-literal, non-religious expression of shock, the other is a literal, religious expression of rejoicing.

 

 

Point taken, never thought about it in that light before.

[Kuky]

I agree with Echo38. There're many radical Islamic groups that killing people easly while yelling "Allahu Ekber". Because their "book" dictates that you may kill somebody for your god if enemy is not Muslim.

 

see this is common misconception, Quran/Islam actually does not promote violence, it's these fanatics that twist things around to suit their agenda and call for this jihad etc. But muslim or not fact that someone's country is in war (or being opressed in any way people will eventually call for rebelion) takes things into another concept and because it happens to be that these countries are populated by muslims, they will be calling and praying to their God.

 

Take a look at christianity wars that waged centuries ago... it's same thing... just different religion. So bottom line is people have been doing terrible things for as long as people have existed, and only because someone that makes these terrible things yells a name of some God makes it somehow worse? I think it makes it sound worse because people think if they weren't yelling some God's name their killings would have another reason behind? Would it make more justifiable? I doubt it.

 

Actually maybe it would because if you would have one person do some killing and it would get on the news, you would think "of he's just one nut job" and wouldn't worry too much, but when they are religious then you think "oh my, these (insert name of religious group) are crazy" and there is much more of them... that does feel very much more scary... as this is not just ONE nut job person, now it's millions aye ;)

 

PS: sorry for going OT more

Edited September 1, 2012 by Kuky

[EtherealN]

Now, how about we get back on topic?

We can?

Thank god.

[FanBoy2006.01]

It looks to me that the helicopter's “back is broken”. It can probably not be controlled.

 

 

Yes and the poor pilot probably burned alive.

[rextar]

Guys stay on topic its about the aircraft

Nothing more.

[aaron886]

Thank god.

 

OT! :D Religious nut... :disgust:

 

Based on the height from which the helicopter fell, I'm certain whatever took it down was either guided or already on-board the deathtrap... I mean... helicopter. How Syrian rebels could possibly get a hold of guided anti-aircraft weaponry I hate to imagine, and none of the possibilities are a pleasant thought. Someone asked "why wasn't the helicopter able to autorotate?" That generally requires that the fuselage not be a crumped wreck engulfed in flames.

 

Allah probably blessed the local imam with laser-beam eyes to take it out. That would surely explain why they're all shouting "Allah is Great." (Just not quite as great as the Syrian government...? :D)

[112th_Rossi]

I suspect that pilot was toast way before it even hit the ground. RIP pilot.

 

Anyway, I suspect the Allah Akbar chants are more to do with passive cultural conditioning rather than indoctrination, or perhaps a bit of both. Out of everyone who is fighting there, there will be those who aren't really religious zealots who say these things out of habit. Depends on the country and the faction I guess.

 

If the rebels are fighting for a free Syria, the I suspect most of them are moderate as Syria has been quite westernised in some respects.

 

I say 'Oh my god' 'for gods sake' and 'thank god' even though I am probably the most non-religious type youd could meet. It's just a conditioning of how I have been brought up and what I pick up from the people around me.

[aaron886]

You've rehashed the previous 2 pages of OT...