Announcing Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3

[manfrez01]

Well, I am not impressed with FC 3. I've been buying ED's products because of Flanker, Fulcrum and Frogfoot. And I don't see anything done for those three. Importing FC 2 aircraft (already existing code) to DCS world does not make me feel spending money.

 

As mentioned earlier on this thread, the missile AFM is DCS feature, not FC 3 feature, and I don't see why is that listed as a NEW feature of FC 3?

 

It looks like FC 3 is a product for new comers.

 

Going back to reading MiG-21 manual ... :smilewink:

+1

[Krebs20]

3) "Importing FC 2 aircraft" is not a matter of just copy-pasting some documents into a file structure. If you believe it is, go ahead an do it yourself. ;) (I'm being facetious there of course, you can't - that's the point; as you know, FC2 was actually not made with the DCS World modular system in mind. That means, to get them in there ED needed to do a lot of work to port that code over to the new modular codebase.

 

Short of a working radar. You can. I hate to point that out. But you can fly anything in DCS world if you know what file to copy.

[Pyroflash]

Some DLL's and stuff that are needed to get the aircraft working properly in DCS:W are not going to export all that well from FC2

[mmaruda]

Well from the developers standpoint, sure a lot of work means appropriate price tag. However, from the customer standpoint... we don't really know, and we don't really care.

 

I think some understanding should apply both ways here. I get this is a niche product, I get this is a small company and I get that rewriting the code took effort, but... people bought LOMAC, FC1, FC2, and now FC3... well not really anything new here - no new planes, no AFM for planes (just missiles... and you really have to be deep into this game to consider this a big improvement). Just one 6DOF pit. Why just one? This make the sim very uneven, and many Lock On fans came to it from Flanker, and that was all about Russian jets, not the F-15.

 

I don't know if I'm going to buy this yet. Mostly because I have been getting my kicks from study-sim level lately, but I know that there is a significant number of people who feel they are getting the same game for the fourth time with just a fece-lift and $40 is a lot.

[neroroxxx]

I really hope we can export the radar on the eagle to a second screen that would be amazing!

[EtherealN]

Just one 6DOF pit. Why just one?

 

Because I'm sure you wouldn't be too enthusiastic about a 2019 release date.

There is a LOT of work and time involved in making those pits, and it must be done by the appropriate staff. You don't necessarily want someone specialized in UI programming to work in 3D modeling and texturing - it wouldn't give a good result and would be an effective use of resources.

[EtherealN]

I really hope we can export the radar on the eagle to a second screen that would be amazing!

 

Not entirely certain about direct export, but the arguments should export fine if someone updates LEAVU, for example, I think.

[Krebs20]

The whole 9 women 1 baby theory again?

[EtherealN]

The whole 9 women 1 baby theory again?

 

Exactly. :)

 

Thing is, ED could in theory hire a bunch of extra people with the relevant skillsets; but what then after these are done? They'll be without work and have to be laid off again, which is not fair to them. The most difficult part of business is to make sure you've got a good balance of talent for your workload - and this is extra difficult in game development since you need a lot of specialized skillsets. (Possibly easier in bigger companies where staff can be moved between projects and franchises at any time.)

[Cali]

Haven't experimented in DCSW much... but is contrailing dynamically modeled now? or still the same?

 

I hope they changed this also, it's annoying knowing at 26,000 and 40,000 contrails start and stop.......in any weather or temp.

 

Veljko, you seem to not have read this thread (understandable given it's size), so I'll reiterate:

 

1) The missile AFM was developed specifically for FC3. No FC3, no missile AFM.

2) All aircraft have seen attention in several aspects.

2b) This includes reimplementation of HUDs, systems overhauls (though true, not everyone's pet peeve made the cut), etcetera etcetera.

3) "Importing FC 2 aircraft" is not a matter of just copy-pasting some documents into a file structure. If you believe it is, go ahead an do it yourself. ;) (I'm being facetious there of course, you can't - that's the point; as you know, FC2 was actually not made with the DCS World modular system in mind. That means, to get them in there ED needed to do a lot of work to port that code over to the new modular codebase.)

 

Nothing is free in software development, and even things that look simple from the outside can require quite a bit of work.

 

E, you are going to be repeating yourself and saying this a lot. All some people see is F-15 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, F-15, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, F-15, blah, blah. They failed to read in between the lines.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Nothing is free in software development, and even things that look simple from the outside can require quite a bit of work.

 

Money is not an issue here. I've spent around $300 buying ED products everything from Lock On, FC, FC 2, Ka-50, Ka-50 2, A-10C, P-51 ... And I got multiple copies of most of these. And I often bought them just to support ED, because I don't have time to play with all of that. And I spent close to a $1000 and a lots of my hours for hosting dedicated server, web site ... And another $1500 to get water cooled computer, so that I can play ... And I am very happy that I spent all that money. And I am ready to spend as much more ...

 

But, I want to spend it on a product, not on a copy and paste code, and 6DOF F-15 cockpit. I work for a manufacturing company that among other things, develops software, thus I know what it takes to do software stuff. And I do know and fully understand that ED and Fighter Collection have to make money.

 

However, there is nothing in FC 3 for me now. F-15 lovers, they will get something. Me, nothing.

 

Also, FC 3 looks like it is for beginners that are getting into DCS world. I don't know ... I'll see what my squad mates are going to say. But, I am not excited at all.

[madhog]

Question, why give special treat to F-15? is that supposed to be an upgrade from FC2? don't tell me that without FC3 there wouldn't be any other updates to DCSW, as there will be regardless if you buy FC3 or not. It seems it did angered a lot of loyal fans of the company, so i suggest TFC (not ED) reconsider all-american approach to developing its existing and future modules and take some balanced approach, i personally not happy with the announcement and not fond of F-15 at all as many others out there.

Making F-15C fidelity will take 1 year to do? so why to make it for 1 aircraft as FC series are all about easy to learn/fly set of planes, not just one, i will never understand it, besides the fact that US owner dictates its terms to ED, it's not very business wise smart considering the ground (flanker) it was based on, i'm not arguing the price tag, it's fine by me, rather unbalanced treatment of fans

[Nate--IRL--]

.........besides the fact that US owner dictates its terms to ED, it's not very business wise smart considering the ground (flanker) it was based on, i'm not arguing the price tag, it's fine by me, rather unbalanced treatment of fans

 

TFC is British. Just so you know.

 

Nate

[EtherealN]

Money is not an issue here.

 

You're not the developer that has to look for it's bottom line to stay in business, at least not in the case of FC3 and DCS. Thus your own expenditures are not what I am talking about here. ;)

[EtherealN]

so i suggest TFC (not ED) reconsider all-american approach

 

You don't have to go far back in time to find that TFC and ED were accused of being pro-russian. The time around Black Shark development, for example. (First there was FC, adding a russian plane... then Black Shark, also russian...)

 

There is no "all-american" approach.

[Exorcet]

Short of a working radar. You can. I hate to point that out. But you can fly anything in DCS world if you know what file to copy.

 

The lack of a radar is pretty important.

 

Well from the developers standpoint, sure a lot of work means appropriate price tag. However, from the customer standpoint... we don't really know, and we don't really care.

I do.

no new planes, no AFM for planes (just missiles... and you really have to be deep into this game to consider this a big improvement).

Missile AFM is huge. Enormous. It's just behind plane AFM and on par with DCS cockpit IMO. If this means that aircraft launch speed is taken into account, and we have more natural ballistics, and possibly better missile flight profile modeling, it will mean that fighting and the underlying online combat will change for the better. Now there is more to consider when launching and defending, and the strengths and weaknesses of the planes and how those things relate to the missiles are more important. The AFM for missiles is probably the standout feature for FC3.

 

Just one 6DOF pit. Why just one?

Time, as was said.

 

This make the sim very uneven, and many Lock On fans came to it from Flanker, and that was all about Russian jets, not the F-15.

I can understand if it seems unbalanced to some, but I don't understand why Flanker comes up. Flanker is not FC. They're different games, so there is no reason to think that FC should revolve around the Flanker or even Russian planes.

 

Given the type of sim it is, it shouldn't revolve around any single plane, but ED's limited resources are a real limitation. At least they aren't biased. Russia has 2 AFM planes, one of the two US planes now has a new cockpit, and all aircraft have been given improved weapons and systems.

 

I don't know if I'm going to buy this yet. Mostly because I have been getting my kicks from study-sim level lately, but I know that there is a significant number of people who feel they are getting the same game for the fourth time with just a fece-lift and $40 is a lot.

 

It's not a face lift when the way the sim runs has changed (AFM missile). It also integrates with DCS World, expanding online and mod options. You can't get FC3 from FC2. You're not getting the same thing. What you think is expensive or not is up to you though.

 

But, I want to spend it on a product, not on a copy and paste code, and 6DOF F-15 cockpit.

Then don't, though the code has not just been copied and pasted.

 

Also, FC 3 looks like it is for beginners that are getting into DCS world. I don't know ... I'll see what my squad mates are going to say. But, I am not excited at all.

FC3 is the same as FC2 in regards to what it is there for. It's the only way to fly fighters in an ED sim currently.

 

Question, why give special treat to F-15? is that supposed to be an upgrade from FC2? don't tell me that without FC3 there wouldn't be any other updates to DCSW, as there will be regardless if you buy FC3 or not.

But they wouldn't have been in DCSW if FC3 was not developed. There was no reason for AFM missiles right now outside of FC3. The A-10 and Su-25 don't need that.

 

reconsider all-american approach to developing its existing and future modules and take some balanced approach

The all American approach that improved all the Russian planes?

 

 

Making F-15C fidelity will take 1 year to do? so why to make it for 1 aircraft as FC series are all about easy to learn/fly set of planes, not just one, i will never understand it

What fidelity? The F-15 is the same fidelity as the Su-27. The only difference is the 3D model.

 

considering the ground (flanker) it was based on, i'm not arguing the price tag, it's fine by me, rather unbalanced treatment of fans

FC isn't Flanker.

[Eddie]

It's not true at all. But the fact is it's easier/more practical to produce western aircraft as information on eastern block aircraft is very hard to come by.

 

Don't forget ED, being mostly Russian, want to make Russian aircraft as well as US aircraft (and others), but they can only do so if they have the necessary data. And something has to come first.

 

Also remember the very first DCS module was a Russian aircraft, as is one of the first 3rd party modules. There is no discrimination based on country of origin, people who don't get their favourite aircraft/feature just seem to like thinking there is.

[Pyroflash]

What about Su-25 and Ka-50? They developed those two aircraft before the A-10C came out. Strictly speaking, ED has given "love" to 3 Flanker games, LOMAC (which is primarily Russian aircraft), Ka-50, A-10C, P-51D, now upgrades for all aircraft with some touchups to the models of the F-15C in FC3, plus some hundreds of ground units that you can control from all sides in CA.

 

Not counting the numerous other upgrades to the game that FC3 allowed to happen (most of the things that FC3 promises would flatly not be available if they weren't developed for FC3), that leaves us with 11 "effective Russian aircraft" compared to the 6 "effective NATO aircraft" (5 if you don't count FC3 as a "F-15C only upgrade", as most of the FC3 nay-sayers are doing). In my opinion, this leaves U.S. aircraft at the disadvantage in terms of attention, and I welcome what ED are doing.

 

Not saying that I wouldn't welcome some new additions to current Russian aircraft, or simply new Russian aircraft, however to say that NATO planes have been given all or even most of the attention is plainly wrong.

[Gisen]

I don't understand why I have to buy lockon AND flaming cliffs 3.

I already bought several DCS world modules.

Why should I have to buy 2 games to play one of them?

 

This is dodgy.

[EtherealN]

I don't understand why I have to buy lockon AND flaming cliffs 3.

I already bought several DCS world modules.

Why should I have to buy 2 games to play one of them?

 

This is dodgy.

 

Because UbiSoft owns LOMAC, and FC is an expansion to LOMAC, therefore FC requires LOMAC.

 

This is not up to Eagle Dynamics. You can rest assured that ED would love to be able to offer the FC series of products without requiring LOMAC, since this would make it easier for customers and thus grant more sales, but that's just not possible. At least not today.

[USAFMTL]

My one big hope is that the missiles are fixed like they stated. Currently as many know the AIM-120C blows goats. Its sad when I get a better PK with the Great White Hope than with the Slammer. The AIM-120C, C-5 and soon the D are the best AHM's in the world. Period, the runner up is the R-77 but it doesn't have the ECCCM, yes that is 3 C's........ the new AIM-120's have. I would hope that this is fixed. Other than that I am good with what FC3 will have. I really like the fact that its integrates with DCS World. More plane, bigger theater and with Nevada coming out....Red Flag time. Bro's we are getting back to the golden age of simming again.

Edited September 3, 2012 by USAFMTL
Spelling....

[madhog]

Why would you give F-15 (very ugly plane to fly if u ask me) any different treatment then other planes in a series? give it AFM as some RU planes have it, but by the looks of it (new 3d model, cockpit, SP missions, campaign) it favors some very narrow base of US fanboys that enjoys F-15

[Eddie]

Erm, Ka-50. Still the only helicopter module, does that mean the US Chopper fans should start complaining the ED is discriminating against them?

[madhog]

Erm, Ka-50. Still the only helicopter module, does that mean the US Chopper fans should start complaining the ED is discriminating against them?

 

) you/we all know that making Ah-64D/A or Cobra will make you tons of money, and we all understand that you just uncapable of doing it at this point, so don't try to resort to fan's feelings about Ka-50 being the only one module for helicopers as FC/lockon is all about planes

[chokko]

i haven't touched FC2 in about a year so i have two questions.

 

1)

To play FC2, i need:

Lockon + FC1 + FC2

 

To play FC3, i need:

DCSWorld(free) + Lockon + FC3

 

2)

Also, when i installed FC2 just before it said i had 0 activations remaining. Aren't these supposed to replenish over time?