End of the runway

[Geert Hooghe]

Hi all,

 

I'm currently doing runway practices and landings (Kutaisi).

 

For the moment i can't stop my A-10 before I reach the end of the runway...it's always close but i keep going over in the grass.

 

I'll have to practise to get it done but that's not my issue :

 

Question : is it possible that the wheel brake doesn't work until you are below a certain groundspeed ??

 

Thnx

[Kuky]

No. You need to come in at slower speed (little above stall speed with full flaps down) and as you touchdown raise flaps, that will put more weight onto wheels and will have more effective breaking. If you still can't land and stop till end of runway you are coming in too fast (or flaring too long)

[159th_Viper]

 

Question : is it possible that the wheel brake doesn't work until you are below a certain groundspeed ??

 

You should be touching down at approx 120 knots or less. At touchdown, extend airbrakes fully and keep her nose off the ground to aero brake. Once the nose comes down coast to a stop - no need to even use the wheel brake to stop. If you really stand on the brakes you can stop in eight hundred metres or so.

[Skymad]

How much fuel you had left? Any weapons?

 

Try landing at 130 knots with speed brakes open and full flaps, wheel brakes at 100 knots.

[Leto]

No, the wheelbrakes should work as soon as you hit the pedals or press "W".

 

 

 

Try the following:

 

rightCTRL+ENTER... a small overlay on the left side of you screen should appear that shows your actual inputs. When you hit the brakes 2 indicators should appear and rise in the bottom left and bottom right corner of the screen. If that is the case then they function correctly.

 

If that's the case check your landing speed. Should be around 110-135kts depending on your landing weight. Left of the HUD you have an indicator for the right pitch/speed ratio. If you see the green donut only it's perfect.

 

If all of the above mentioned not work for you: provide a track. That's the only way for us to help you based on facts.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Leto

[Kuky]

Yes I forgot to sau you need to extend full air brakes (you should do this for any landing really). By the way if you are trying to land at that really short runway in Kutaisi city then it is really hard to land there and stop on time because this runway is really short, but it's still doable. Most important thing is get as slow as possible before you land, that will have most effect on stopping length.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Hi all,

 

I'm currently doing runway practices and landings (Kutaisi).

 

For the moment i can't stop my A-10 before I reach the end of the runway...it's always close but i keep going over in the grass.

 

I'll have to practise to get it done but that's not my issue :

 

Question : is it possible that the wheel brake doesn't work until you are below a certain groundspeed ??

 

Thnx

 

Hooghe, you're coming in too fast. To calculate the optimal approach speed, for each 1000 lbs above 30,000 lbs gross weight, add 2 kts to 130 KIAs. Actual landing speed is 8-10 kts smaller than above result. For example, if GW = 32,000 lbs, the appch speed should be 30,000 = 130 + 2 kts (31,000) + 2 kts (32,000) = 134 KIAs. The landing speed should be 120~122 KIAs.

 

could you give me your mission so I try it.

[sobek]

keep her nose off the ground to aero brake.

 

According to the crew chiefs, aerobraking is not used on the A-10. The barn doors are sufficient. :)

[MTFDarkEagle]

According to the crew chiefs, aerobraking is not used on the A-10. The barn doors are sufficient. :)

But it looks coooooooooooooool!!!!!

[159th_Viper]

According to the crew chiefs, aerobraking is not used on the A-10. The barn doors are sufficient. :)

 

In-SIM we still have to deal with the 'handles-like-wet-runway' bug :)

 

In any event, herewith a track landing at Kutaisi at 73% gross weight (4xMavs/2xSidewinders/ECM and TGP Pods/25% fuel) without using wheelbrakes at all so it can be done - just watch the speed on approach.

 

Track: Kutaisi landing no wheelbrakes.trk

[sobek]

In-SIM we still have to deal with the 'handles-like-wet-runway' bug :)

 

You mean too low wheel friction forces? I don't understand how this relates to aerobreaking?

[159th_Viper]

You mean too low wheel friction forces? I don't understand how this relates to aerobreaking?

 

What I mean is that if you are struggling to come to a stop in a given distance in-SIM then you can utilize the advantage that aero-braking gives to do so. Just relying on the airbrakes In-SIM will not get you stopped as quick (without wheel-brake use) as it would IRL.

[BlueRidgeDx]

Not to nitpick, but wet runways don't reduce the effectiveness of aerodynamic surfaces. i.e. speedbrakes, spoilers, thrust reversers, etc. It is wheel braking that is adversely affected due to the reduced friction coefficient of the runway.

 

Landing distance would be equal for two airplanes landing without wheel brakes on a wet vs. a dry runway.

 

On the other hand, landing distance would vary significantly if both aircraft used wheel brakes. The landing distance on the wet runway would be longer.

[159th_Viper]

Ta for the correction Blue and apologies all for the confusion :)

[Geert Hooghe]

Ta for the correction Blue and apologies all for the confusion :)

Really great to get so many devoted answers. Read them all and kept the following :

 

Lower airspeed

Full flaps (though i set them 40% on approach)

Full airbrakes on touchdown

Keep nose up for aerobrake

 

THIS is not a game...it's an adventure !

 

Thnx everyone !!

[Geert Hooghe]

Sorry, not the flaps at 40% ! The airbrakes at 40% !!

[Dave317]

Remember also that the airbrakes extend even further when the wheels are on the ground. Once you touch down hold the airbrake button again the get full brakes.

[FreeFall]

Hooghe, you're coming in too fast. To calculate the optimal approach speed, for each 1000 lbs above 30,000 lbs gross weight, add 2 kts to 130 KIAs. Actual landing speed is 8-10 kts smaller than above result. For example, if GW = 32,000 lbs, the appch speed should be 30,000 = 130 + 2 kts (31,000) + 2 kts (32,000) = 134 KIAs. The landing speed should be 120~122 KIAs.

 

You don't need your calculator if you just monitor your AoA Indexer/Indicator. :)

[GGTharos]

You don't need to do that. You'll mask the upper part of your air brakes this way.

 

Keep nose up for aerobrake

[WildBillKelsoe]

You don't need your calculator if you just monitor your AoA Indexer/Indicator. :)

 

True, but I prefer to be more 'technical', if you know what I mean. I treat the Hog as if she were my Buick!

[Hamblue]

On short runways I like to land with the air brakes extended and use throttle to adjust speed. It gives me better speed control and when I cut throttle the air brakes are already out which cuts stopping time.

[BlueRidgeDx]

With so many different opinions competing for attention, its easier to look at what the Dash-1 has to say about the matter:

"MINIMUM RUN LANDING.

 

For a minimum run landing, the final approach speed (gear and

flaps down and speed brakes 40%) should be reduced by 10

knots from the on-speed AOA indication or computed minimum,

whichever is faster. The airspeed indicator should be used

to fly a minimum run landing since the AOA indexer may indicate

slow "\ /" only, and will not provide sufficient guidance for

a safe approach. Power should be sufficient to maintain the final

approach speed and sink rate until touchdown. Select speed

brakes 100%immediately after touchdown. If maximum performance

braking is required, immediately achieve a three point attitude,

place the throttles to idle, and apply wheel brakes with a

firm continuous force, sufficient to feel anti-skid cycling."

and;

"...

final turn airspeed

with landing gear down, full flaps, and speed brakes

40%. For

final turn airspeed at 30,000 Lbs total aircraft weight, use

145

KIAS plus 2 knots per additional 1000 pounds of

fuel."

 

and;

"

For final approach airspeed at 30,000 Lbs total aircraft weight,

use 130 KIAS plus 2 knots per additional 1000 Lbs of fuel for full

flaps. For exact approach speeds, see 1A-10C-1-1."

 

and;

"

WARNING

 

Total reliance on either the AOA system or

airspeed computation

may result in a reduced

stall margin."

Edited September 8, 2012 by BlueRidgeDx

[SmokeyTheLung]

^^^I reject your reality and substitute it with my own :D

 

...best was to land the a10 on a short field is with the gear up firing the cannon from short final to full stop

[Echo38]

too low wheel friction forces

 

I've been wondering about this since my first day with the sim. I've never flown a real jet and I have no hard evidence to support my feeling, but when I flew light airplanes I.R.L., I had no difficulty getting them to slow down by themselves after landing, without using any brake at all. In DCS, I have a devil of a time getting down to a speed at which I can safely turn off at the end of the runway. I'm coming in at 130 and touching down at about 120, which I gather is a little fast, and I don't deploy my airbrakes until my mains touch. But, even so, I'd expect the airplane to be slowed by wheel friction more than it is, and I am using nose-high aerodynamic breaking as well as full airbrake. Granted, a light propeller airplane is not a 20,000+ lb. military jet, so maybe my feeling is incorrect. But it looks like I'm not the only one who has suspicions about the runway-to-wheel friction modelling.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Echo38

[BlueRidgeDx]

As I explained in the other thread regarding landings, you need to stop aerobraking; it doesn't work in the A-10. Get the nose on the ground and with full speedbrakes, the airplane will coast to a stop without wheel brakes on an 8,000 ft runway.