JozMk.II Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Oh, and, I forgot to note that I had the supercharger in low blower mode throughout the remaining second half of the mission. I'll check the track to see what RPM and MP settings I had it on tomorrow; I need to hit the sack right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted October 17, 2012 ED Team Share Posted October 17, 2012 Oh, and, I forgot to note that I had the supercharger in low blower mode throughout the remaining second half of the mission. I'll check the track to see what RPM and MP settings I had it on tomorrow; I need to hit the sack right now. Probably a bug. I got the same in your conditions. As we are adjusting overboosting failure I can advise as you are flying at high altitude at blower 1 stage not to advance throttle too forward. The better would be use 2300 - 2400 rpm to have blower capacity enough to close the throttle more. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) I had my engine seize up as well on a flight from Vaziani over to Batumi. I followed the valleys and the edge of the mountains, not a straight line flight plan. As I was flying over the ocean near Batumi setting up for my approach, the engine started running roughly for about a minute or so, before stopping completely (prop stopped, no windmilling). All of my engine instruments were in the green and had been throughout the flight, with the exception of carb temp which showed about -10 C. I was flying at 10,000 ft MSL during most of the flight, and had started my descent when the engine quit. I was using max continuous. Approximately MP 45-46", RPM 2700. During the flight when I noticed the carb temp below the green arc, I moved ram air control to unrammed, and the hot air control to hot. This did not affect the carb temp. My understanding is that the hot air control being moved to hot would affect the fuel air mixture in the carb. However, this should not cause the engine to seize up. Tracks are not replaying correctly in this version 1.2.1.6288, so no track posted. Edited October 21, 2012 by Chops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted October 21, 2012 ED Team Share Posted October 21, 2012 I had my engine seize up as well on a flight from Vaziani over to Batumi. I followed the valleys and the edge of the mountains, not a straight line flight plan. As I was flying over the ocean near Batumi setting up for my approach, the engine started running roughly for about a minute or so, before stopping completely (prop stopped, no windmilling). All of my engine instruments were in the green and had been throughout the flight, with the exception of carb temp which showed about -10 C. I was flying at 10,000 ft MSL during most of the flight, and had started my descent when the engine quit. I was using max continuous. Approximately MP 45-46", RPM 2700 THank you very much! I'll check. Maybe the same thing. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Yo-Yo Thanks! I just made some edits to my post, so please re-read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The attached track of a flight I just made from Vaziani to Batumi seems to play back fine on my end, perhaps you can find something I did different that could explain why your engine seized and mine didn't.Test_flight.trk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap_Chop Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) The attached track shows 2 take offs and landings during Practice The sequence of events is as follows P51 take Off and Landing. Then taxi to parking. Shutdown. Startup. Taxi to Runway Take off and Landing. Taxi to Parking Area. Engine Rev and Seize while attempting to park. You can fast forward to the last landing to see this. I think the track length is about 1360 seconds (Random failures definitely off in options.)Engine Seize On Taxi.trk Edited October 21, 2012 by Slap_Chop I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy and I've had both. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted October 21, 2012 ED Team Share Posted October 21, 2012 Firing at high G-load can jam guns... :) by the way. 1 Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Slap Chop, my guess would be because you were moving the throttle too fast and because you left the prop control too low. Also, you need to hold the radio key down while the pilot is talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The attached track of a flight I just made from Vaziani to Batumi seems to play back fine on my end, perhaps you can find something I did different that could explain why your engine seized and mine didn't. Thanks for the track, however, it did not play back correctly. In the replay your plane taxi's into the grass, takes off, and promptly crashes. I did notice one thing in your startup procedure - you turned on pitot heat on the ramp. Pitot heat is typically turned on during the Lineup Check immediately before taxiing onto the runway for takeoff. Turning it on, on the ramp, can burn out the system typically unless it is a cold winter day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JozMk.II Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 What exact value were rpm and MP set to? MP was 3200, and RPM was 2200. Airspeed was about 375 MPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap_Chop Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Slap Chop, my guess would be because you were moving the throttle too fast and because you left the prop control too low. Also, you need to hold the radio key down while the pilot is talking. Thanks for the Reply Rotareneg. You gave me an idea for a test. I have attached the track . Have a look let me know what you think. (PS: I know how to operate the radio its included in the track)ThrottleTest To Seize Engine.trk I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy and I've had both. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Thanks for the Reply Rotareneg. You gave me an idea for a test. I have attached the track . Have a look let me know what you think. I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here... You're overboosting the engine by placing the prop control in low-rpm and then opening the throttle (exceeding 60" a few times). That will result in failure at some point (if indeed this is modeled in the sim...). I guess I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove here... "It's not the years, honey. It's the mileage..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap_Chop Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here... You're overboosting the engine by placing the prop control in low-rpm and then opening the throttle (exceeding 60" a few times). That will result in failure at some point (if indeed this is modeled in the sim...). I guess I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove here... If you look at the Original track I posted the engine seized after two take off and landings and while taxing in parking area. It was suggested that the cause was Over revving the engine with prop pitch low. This is an extreme duplication of those conditions. Over revving with Low Prop pitch. The engine does not seize and conditions are much more severe than the original engine seize in the (Engine Seizes while taxing) track. That's what I'm trying to show. I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy and I've had both. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 This is an extreme duplication of those conditions. Over revving with Low Prop pitch. The engine does not seize and conditions are much more severe than the original eng... Aaaah... got ya. Well, I just tried to do what you did in the air and to my surprise I was able to get it to seize in the air. It should work on the ground as well. It might not have worked in your ground test because the power transients were too short.... I'm going to test the same thing on the ground and report back :) "It's not the years, honey. It's the mileage..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I can replicate it on the ground as well... not always though. By opening the throttle quickly to "full blast" with the prop control in the course setting, the engine will usually seize. I love this sim :) But we're getting off topic... still not completely sure what caused seizure in your other .TRK... "It's not the years, honey. It's the mileage..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap_Chop Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Yes I've also had the engine seize in the air. Pretty much every time was during an aborted landing where throttle was applied quickly and in all probability the prop pitch was low trying to slow down coming in. Soooo I guess i'd be interested in what the authors of the sim expect the actual conditions to be that will cause the engine to seize sans overheating. And yes I love this sim as well.. :) I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy and I've had both. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Great, now you people have made my engine start seizing! ;) I was practicing taxiing, take-offs, and landings, and was having no engine problems until, while lining up on the runway with the engine at idle, it suddenly seized. No overheating or any other indications of trouble, just... WHAM!!!Engine seized.trk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Two more flights last night. I was doing full power takeoffs and then reducing power to max continuous (MP 46" and 2700 RPM) around 500' - 1000' agl. After flying for about 10 minutes or so with altitudes below 10,000' msl my engine would seize up. No engine instrument indications of a problem. Only carb temp out of the green (does this instrument work by the way, and if so should it be reading in the green during normal operation?) In the attached .trk the engine quits around 8:02 am.Emergency Landing.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted October 22, 2012 ED Team Share Posted October 22, 2012 ... the prop pitch was low trying to slow down coming in. Soooo I guess i'd be interested in what the authors of the sim expect the actual conditions to be that will cause the engine to seize sans overheating. And yes I love this sim as well.. :) You must use max rpm to slow down. Low rpm is useful to make higher glide ratio if the engine is dead and the prop is windmilling. The known reason of engine death is so called overboost - if your throttle is advanced to forward providing high MP at relatively low rpm. This conditions overload piston rods - then CRACK! Sometimes it can produce detonation that makes all things worse. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yo-Yo, So why, when apparently operating the Mustang within normal parameters at max continuous is the engine seizing on a regular basis? The debrief screen really needs to be expanded to include more detail. "Engine Shutdown" is not suffiecient and is really useless. We know the engine shutdown. How about giving detail as to why the engine shutdown? You guys are obviously modeling various engine parameters so wouldn't it be possible to include this information for the pilot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 So why, when apparently operating the Mustang within normal parameters at max continuous is the engine seizing on a regular basis? The damage model is still in the process of being fine tuned, AFAIK. There could be combinations of parameters that make it seize prematurely. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailgate Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I know we need to manually open the coolant vent on start up then switch to auto after takeoff. I'm wondering if the automatic feature is actually functioning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobek Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I know we need to manually open the coolant vent on start up then switch to auto after takeoff. I'm wondering if the automatic feature is actually functioning? It is, disregard the green arc for oil temp, it does not correspond with target temp values for the real plane. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap_Chop Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 You must use max rpm to slow down. Low rpm is useful to make higher glide ratio if the engine is dead and the prop is windmilling. The known reason of engine death is so called overboost - if your throttle is advanced to forward providing high MP at relatively low rpm. This conditions overload piston rods - then CRACK! Sometimes it can produce detonation that makes all things worse. Taking your advice keeping RPM's in the green zone has eliminated engine seizing for me. I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy and I've had both. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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