Cockpit interaction in future addons

[Yellonet]

I'm all for the clickable pits. I'll map everything to my HOTAS and while they're diddly-farting around w/their mouse they won't even see the incoming missile.

That's exactly why IMHO this should be a (server side) realism option.

 

In multiplayer games this would be really cool.

Tthe human factor becomes even greater... turning on the lights instead of arming the weapons and stuff like that ;)

[Guest ruggbutt]

I can flip a switch on my HOTAS as quick as the real pilot can in his cockpit. I like that. And I have every command programmed into my HOTAS that you need to fly any of the LOMAC a/c. I have them all memorized, I don't have to use my cheat sheet anymore. ;) The only time I have to touch my keyboard is to hit the "S" key to start the mission. The only F key that I programmed was the F10/Map key.

[EvilBivol-1]

IMO hitting the keyboard represents the most "realistic" model, since you, just as a real pilot would, extend your hand from the controls to manipulate a physical switch, even though it may not actually look like the real switch. Also, just as in real life, you can do so with only a quick glance down to locate the exact position of the switch. For example, when I make my X-45 profiles, I always leave the gear toggle off the profile, to allow myself the "pleasure" of actually extending my hand to "hit" the gear level on the keyboard. Using a mouse complicates it far beyond a real pilot's workload and takes much longer as well.

 

Having said that, I believe a clickable pit is worth investing development time in, because using the mouse on pre-flight, take-off, and navigation procedures definitely adds something to the feeling of "being there," while in combat situations, the keyboard shortcuts (besides the already programmed HOTAS functions) are the best way to go. Also, consider the fact that we will now have *hundreds* of functions mapped to the keyboard. That's just too much to memorize and program into your profiles, so there's a certain need for mouse-manipulation. Lastly (for Ruggbutt), even in fully-HOTAS equipped pits, pilots often have to manipulate various switches in the pit, no?

[Weta43]

While I agree that the HOTAS/keyboard will be the way to go for as much of the workload as possible, it'll be worth their doing just to get the cockpit animated...(there's a couple of threads about this already)

[Guest ruggbutt]

For example, when I make my X-45 profiles, I always leave the gear toggle off the profile, to allow myself the "pleasure" of actually extending my hand to "hit" the gear level on the keyboard.

I bought the CH Throttle Quadrant for stuff like that. While it's meant for civilian and military multiengine aircraft, you can use if for so much more. It has 6 levers and I have 2 stages of flaps, gear up/down, canopy open/shut, etc. on the levers. It's cool as hell to have to reach over and flip up the gear lever.

 

The thing is kinda pricey, but there's nothing that says cool factor like lifting a lever and seeing 3 green turn to 3 red. :D

[SwingKid]

There is nothing connected with realism as both control methods are only very rough approximations to what a pilot actually does in the cockpit.

 

Thank God...

 

-SK

[SimFreak]

....only very rough approximations to what a pilot actually does in the cockpit.

.

If permitted in this stage of development, would you be kind enough to elaborate on that statement?

I was waiting with jitteriness to control all of the weapon systems, which are away from flight yoke, though mouse; although, that statement denudes my expectation. May it not be so, please.

[SwingKid]

From what I understand, they still plan to make the cockpit fully clickable. Oleg's comment is that they will support both systems - fully clickable cockpit, and fully programmable keyboard/HOTAS interface, as exists in Falcon 4.

 

I'm sorry that my relief and happiness frightens you - I'll try harder to be disappointed in future. ;)

 

-SK

[SimFreak]

From what I understand, they still plan to make the cockpit fully clickable. Oleg's comment is that they will support both systems - fully clickable cockpit, and fully programmable keyboard/HOTAS interface, as exists in Falcon 4.

 

I'm sorry that my relief and happiness frightens you - I'll try harder to be disappointed in future. ;)

 

-SK

You misunderstood me. Question was not about interaction but about realism of interaction. “very rough approximations“ can be interpreted as ‘click one button to simulate 20 buttons’ which RL pilot would press. I, as a masochist for realism, want those 20 buttons, not 1. That is base of my fears.

[Vito]

No, i don't think that a real pilot needs to press more than one thing to lower the gear or lock the target. What was meant by "approximation to real life" is i guess, really, pressing a button on your keyboard or mpuse doesn't give you the feel. Take a car sim for example. This is something we all can compare to the real life. Pressing the arrows on your keyboard, shifting gears with buttons doesn't feel at all like in a real car.

[SwingKid]

“very rough approximations“ can be interpreted as ‘click one button to simulate 20 buttons’ which RL pilot would press. I, as a masochist for realism, want those 20 buttons, not 1. That is base of my fears.

 

Your fears are misplaced. From what we know of Olgerd, he is more such "masochist for realism" than you and I put together. I interpret his comment as, "no matter that we will give you twenty switches - you are still either clicking them on the screen with a mouse, or plinking on a keyboard, and both of these are equally ridiculous, stop arguing which is realistic. You should all be building home cockpits out of spare jet parts, to use the controls we are planning!"

 

:)

-SK

[Vito]

building a cockpit is a good idea... Do you know where they throw away old parts of su-27s?:) )))

[SimFreak]

Your fears are misplaced. From what we know of Olgerd, he is more such "masochist for realism" than you and I put together. I interpret his comment as, "no matter that we will give you twenty switches - you are still either clicking them on the screen with a mouse, or plinking on a keyboard, and both of these are equally ridiculous, stop arguing which is realistic. You should all be building home cockpits out of spare jet parts, to use the controls we are planning!"

 

:)

-SK

Damn my ‘glass half empty’ nature. I can hope for as you say, but something whispers that it will be a ‘3 buttons’ to turn on an engine and one button to enable weapon systems. But those are idle speculations since person with ‘ED Team’ tag has not answered yet.

 

Vito,

As many movements as I go though ‘start engine’ of Cessna, my only experience, I want to visit same experience as a pilot in Ka50 does; the mouse must become my hand in our simulated world of LOMAC.

[firesoldier845]

The whole clickable pits debate is nothing more than another one of those my sim is better than your sim things. Or replace better with "more realistic". It's just another F4 fanbois vs Lomac fanbois thing. If ED does clickable good or if they don't good. It's up to them. The crying about it being realistic well you people who think than any of this gaming is realistic...come on. It's a game, have fun and enjoy it. If a clickable pit is going to bother anybody one way or another then you take this hobby way too seriously.

 

ED will do what they want and what they can afford to do given budget and time. Sadly, there probably won't be enough clickable buttons and switches for everyone but you'll just have to get over it. I mean no matter how much they do it'll never make some people happy. Someone will be complaining about how the sounds of the switches don't sound realistic or something a long those lines.

 

cheers

[SwingKid]

As many movements as I go though ‘start engine’ of Cessna,

 

Two?

 

-SK

[SimFreak]

Two?

 

-SK

Not quite.

 

(IIRC steps that require one to push something)

Parking brake. (Set)

Master

Lights

Fuel Selector (Both)

Fuel strainer knob

Heading Indicator (Cage)

Attitude Indicator (Cage)

Primer

Mixture (Rich)

Throttle (Open 1/4)

Carb Heat

Ignition

 

Then

COMM

NAV/IFFR

Other high tech toys

Altimeter (Set)

More lights…

etc..

[Guest IguanaKing]

1. Check brakes

2. Set throttle

3. Set mixture

4. Pump primer 3X (pulling plunger out slowly to avoid getting air bubbles in fuel)

5. Master on

6. Beacon on

7. Hold brakes

8. Rotate mag switch to start

9. Once started, verify oil pressure

10. Set mixture to just outside the point of loss of engine RPM

 

I've left out a few, but there are more than two steps. ;)

 

I wouldn't necessarily need a clickable pit, but the avionics should be fully functional. Let's also add more COMs, and maybe even SSR operations. The "simple" act of managing the cockpit adds a new level of challenge, and is MUCH more difficult than what we have in LOMAC at the moment. :D

[SUBS17]

The whole clickable pits debate is nothing more than another one of those my sim is better than your sim things. Or replace better with "more realistic". It's just another F4 fanbois vs Lomac fanbois thing. If ED does clickable good or if they don't good. It's up to them. The crying about it being realistic well you people who think than any of this gaming is realistic...come on. It's a game, have fun and enjoy it. If a clickable pit is going to bother anybody one way or another then you take this hobby way too seriously.

 

ED will do what they want and what they can afford to do given budget and time. Sadly, there probably won't be enough clickable buttons and switches for everyone but you'll just have to get over it. I mean no matter how much they do it'll never make some people happy. Someone will be complaining about how the sounds of the switches don't sound realistic or something a long those lines.

 

cheers

 

I doubt anyone will be complaining over such improvements.

[Olgerd]

Damn my ‘glass half empty’ nature. I can hope for as you say, but something whispers that it will be a ‘3 buttons’ to turn on an engine and one button to enable weapon systems. But those are idle speculations since person with ‘ED Team’ tag has not answered yet.

 

Vito,

As many movements as I go though ‘start engine’ of Cessna, my only experience, I want to visit same experience as a pilot in Ka50 does; the mouse must become my hand in our simulated world of LOMAC.

 

I am sorry if my statement was unclear. Swingkid 'translated' it correctly though. I meant that pressing keyboard buttons is not the exactly same what the real pilot does in the cockpit. Same for mouse controls.

We are trying to make functions in the cockpit much closer to what it looks in the reality for a Ka-50 pilot.

[Fudd]

This leads me to the question: Will APU/APP's be modeled in 1.2 for all aircraft that use them?

[Guest IguanaKing]

How about RATs? That would be a cool feature to model as well. :D

[SwingKid]

(IIRC steps that require one to push something)

Parking brake. (Set)

Ok, we use tie-downs at my airport, never use this.

 

Master

Electric master already exists in AFM (ONE)

 

Lights

Multimode wingtip and gear lights already exist in AFM

 

Fuel Selector (Both)

Visual check only - should always be in this position from previous flight

 

Fuel strainer knob

I don't know this one. Maybe we fly different Cessna models.

 

Heading Indicator (Cage)

May be already set correctly from previous flight. Not required for engine start.

 

Attitude Indicator (Cage)

Pressure altitude adjustment already exists in AFM.

 

Primer

Not required if aircraft was recently flown.

 

Mixture (Rich)

No mixture control in jet aircraft.

 

Throttle (Open 1/4)

Throttle already needs to be in correct position in AFM, otherwise engine may be damaged.

 

Carb Heat

No carb control in jet aircraft.

 

Ignition

Ignition already exists in AFM. (TWO)

 

Then

COMM

NAV/IFFR

Other high tech toys

Altimeter (Set)

More lights…

etc..

Not required for engine start, but ok.

 

From all of the above, what would you propose to change in existing AFM engine start?

 

-SK

[Olgerd]

This leads me to the question: Will APU/APP's be modeled in 1.2 for all aircraft that use them?

 

Not in 1.2. Only for Ka-50.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Heh...caging the gyros? That must be one fancy Cessna. :D

[SimFreak]

SwingKid,

(Rhetorical question) How can you take my post and deliberately mingle its meaning? I was not comparing Froggy with Cessna but just disputing your comical reply of two buttons. As previously stated, I want to go through same checklist as pilot of Ka50 using mouse as extension of my simulated arm; that means going though full checklist, and not skipping steps because ‘aircraft was previously piloted’. What is there to dispute about?