FC3 BETA first impressions wanted

[Meatwod]

Their campaign missions need an overhaul. Most of them don't work as intended. Example, in mission 6 the B52 is supposed to launch 8 cruise missiles to strike an airbase and clear a path for fighter sweep. All 8 missiles go billistic after launch and fall straight to the ground. There is no back-up SEAD, so the sweep and strike package are left attacking a well defended airbase. This type of mission is going to be fantastic in MP when players can do both SEAD, CAP, and Strike.

 

The boys at United Operations do this well playing BMS.

[coolts]

My problem with BMS is getting my controls set up and getting started. Currently the same issue I have in FC3. I think that'll be easier to overcome in FC3 due to better documentation and better options screens.

 

use morphine's profile. solves problem one. :thumbup:

[JABO2009]

I am loving it! the new F-15 is a joy to fly. Also the dcsw integration alone is worth the price for me, a lot better engine now for FC.

 

Absolutely, I wouldnt wanna fly the fastmovers without the DCSW envirnoment anymore. the overall FPS performance is very good (except some issues, when dropping CBUs/MLRS) and the feeling in the F15C is nice.

 

I flew on a FC3 /CA public server yesterday and the situation exactly was what I expected from the FC3 MP experience:

 

We had DCSA10Cs interacting with FC3 A10As over the target area, both covered by F15Cs high up in the air...battling with Su27s... another part did JTAC, another part commanded ground units... enemy Su25Ts tried to knock down our air base SAM units...

 

the abilty to watch this and to change role between mudmover and A2A in MP is itself worth the money...

 

btw: 2 thoughts:

 

1. I really hope we soon get "currently WIP" MULTIROLE / LIGHT ATTACK / TRAINER aircraft like F15E or the Harrier / L39 into DCSW, which would additionally increase mission complexity.

 

2. Pls keep as much DCS modules/aircraft as possible selectable when hosting a public server ! It simply multiplies the fun

Edited November 13, 2012 by JABO2009

[Keyholebud]

I wish i could say how it is, but My copy wont even install. Untill as such time ED fixes the No LOMAC installed cant install FC3 Show Stopper Bug, i wont have any opinion. Yes ticket is open on DCS support, and reported on correct forum threads.

 

 

Key :cry:

Edited November 13, 2012 by Keyholebud

[coolts]

Absolutely, I wouldnt wanna fly the fastmovers without the DCSW envirnoment anymore. the overall FPS performance is very good (except some issues, when dropping CBUs/MLRS) and the feeling in the F15C is nice.

 

I flew on a FC3 /CA public server yesterday and the situation exactly was what I expected from the FC3 MP experience:

 

We had DCSA10Cs interacting with FC3 A10As over the target area, both covered by F15Cs high up in the air...battling with Su27s... another part did JTAC, another part commanded ground units... enemy Su25Ts tried to knock down our air base SAM units...

 

the abilty to watch this and to change role between mudmover and A2A in MP is itself worth the money...

 

btw: 2 thoughts:

 

1. I really hope we soon get "currently WIP" MULTIROLE / LIGHT ATTACK / TRAINER aircraft like F15E or the Harrier / L39 into DCSW, which would additionally increase mission complexity.

 

2. Pls keep as much DCS modules/aircraft as possible selectable when hosting a public server ! It simply multiplies the fun

 

 

 

SOLD! That sounds amazing! :pilotfly:

[Nopileus]

Not a bug...working as intended. You have to pay for the LOMAC license because ED doesn't own the rights to it. Read the disclaimer on the DCS page about the software before you buy it.

 

How about actually properly reading his post and looking at the screenshot.

 

He has LOMAC installed but the FC3 installer doesn't detect it.

[Keyholebud]

How about actually properly reading his post and looking at the screenshot.

 

He has LOMAC installed but the FC3 installer doesn't detect it.

 

Exactly.

 

I even submitted a copy of the Invoice From Amazon.com of the LOMAC purchase with the ticket I opened with the ED support. Don't tell me what is or is not a bug. This is a Show Stopper. Period! I got a SKU#, CD, and a Box. How much more proof do you need that I purchased LOMAC?

 

This is why I cannot give First impressions.

 

 

Key

 

P.S. Here is a screen shot of some software that did install and work, some are Beta. Yes i beta and alpha software.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Keyholebud

[Steel Jaw]

How about actually properly reading his post

 

oooooh...saucey... :P

[Meatwod]

Exactly.

 

I even submitted a copy of the Invoice From Amazon.com of the LOMAC purchase with the ticket I opened with the ED support. Don't tell me what is or is not a bug. This is a Show Stopper. Period! I got a SKU#, CD, and a Box. How much more proof do you need that I purchased LOMAC?

 

This is why I cannot give First impressions.

 

 

Key

 

P.S. Here is a screen shot of some software that did install and work, some are Beta. Yes i beta and alpha software.

 

Appologies. Uncle Sam doesn't let peons download files, so I couldn't see the attachment. Nothing in your post other than the image hinted that you had installed a previous version of Lock-On. I checked the DCS World Bugs and Problems forum and didn't see anyone else repaorting this issue. I have both LOMAC and FC2 installed and had no problems adding FC3 to DCS world.

 

Hope you get this sorted and post your first impression when you have one.

[asparagin]

Or, as someone said recently, FBMS is sex with the hassle of foreplay while FC is straight to the action/reward.

 

Whoever said that, is a great man. :D

[Keyholebud]

I apologize Meatwod for being mean it was very unbecoming of me now that i read it. I need a time out. lol G, Give My regards to Frylock.

 

Key :pilotfly:

[blkspade]

Depends on your definition of "ace". The big deal is how they handle tactics and SA, and that is largely the same in FC and a "hardcore" simulator - except that the hardcore sim might have better tools for the pilot. (Assuming we're talking a properly modern jet here, of course, if an old jet without automation functions for combat systems things change pretty quick.)

 

I couldn't agree more with this. With regard to the possibility that the F-15C could be the first DCS fighter, a clickable cockpit is the least important aspect. By design most of what you'll be doing is going to be controlled from the stick and throttle once in the air. One could extrapolate from this F-15e info http://www.f-15e.info/joomla/en/technology/flight-control-system/89-flight-controls and what you see in the current in game cockpit what the extent of your cockpit switch interaction will likely be: Startup Procedure, Radio Frequency Raise/Lower Gear, Jettison Controls, Radar/TEWS On/Off, and ECM. Everything else is on the flight stick and throttle. If ED models flameouts, then you'll have the need to re-initiate startup procedures mid air, in a panic.

[tspencer227]

use morphine's profile. solves problem one. :thumbup:

 

Where from? I didn't see it on the input/ output/ profile thread...

[Rusty_M]

I think Coolts was talking about a widely used profile in BMS, which was briefly mentioned once or twice, in a fairly relevant manner too. As such, you won't find it in the profiles thread here.

[Cali]

Now, dont get me wrong: I plan on purchasing FC3 (awaiting Committee approval)...FBMS often seems like work, FC is all playtime IMHO, so FC has its benefits.

 

Or, as someone said recently, FBMS is sex with the hassle of foreplay while FC is straight to the action/reward.

 

I don't know why you think just because you can press a few buttons that makes BMS hardcore. I have news for you....it doesn't! I play both and have been playing only BMS since Jan 2012 and I'm not bad in both sims. I consider A.S to be a very good pilot in BMS and back in FC2 and me and him have had a few good fights between us where neither have died. So DCS fast jet isn't going to be that big of a difference to a lot of people. One thing i see DCS doing is seeing more people dedicated to flying 1 or 2 platforms very well. Unlike FC2 were aces were good in every jet. This DCS/BMS clickable pit stuff you always talk about is bs and doesn't make as big a difference as you think.....well maybe for you. What name did you use when you flew FC2 online anyway? Just wondering if I ever saw you flying or did you do the only squad flying thing?

[Mouse]

I'm almost offended to hear that all I've been doing in DCS: A-10C is monkey-like button pushing. There's a lot of hard-earned knowledge that goes into pushing those buttons, but that often only becomes obvious when something goes wrong. The necessary learning creates an unfortunately barrier of entry, which I think is what makes it feel "hardcore," but also makes operating the aircraft very satisfying in its own way.

 

All pilots have to learn to manage a high workload. Fewer buttons to push means less work and less knowledge is required to perform the same task. It also means fewer opportunities for things to go wrong, to forget things or make mistakes.

 

There is much less nuance to the simulation here too, which is what I miss the most coming from the A-10C. I don't miss it enough to get out of my new F-15C just yet, however, and I think FC3 is a great introductory package for newbies coming into DCS for the first time. I know people who would be much more likely to enjoy the more "instant action" feeling of DCS: FC3 than anything else offered up until now.

[coolts]

Where from? I didn't see it on the input/ output/ profile thread...

 

Sorry man, I wasn't being intentionally vague. Here's the BMS profile

 

http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?8147-Morphine-s-Profile

 

works a treat.

[coolts]

I'm almost offended to hear that all I've been doing in DCS: A-10C is monkey-like button pushing. There's a lot of hard-earned knowledge that goes into pushing those buttons, but that often only becomes obvious when something goes wrong. The necessary learning creates an unfortunately barrier of entry, which I think is what makes it feel "hardcore," but also makes operating the aircraft very satisfying in its own way.

 

All pilots have to learn to manage a high workload. Fewer buttons to push means less work and less knowledge is required to perform the same task. It also means fewer opportunities for things to go wrong, to forget things or make mistakes.

 

There is much less nuance to the simulation here too, which is what I miss the most coming from the A-10C. I don't miss it enough to get out of my new F-15C just yet, however, and I think FC3 is a great introductory package for newbies coming into DCS for the first time. I know people who would be much more likely to enjoy the more "instant action" feeling of DCS: FC3 than anything else offered up until now.

 

 

I think that’s a key point. It’s accessible as it’s less scary from the button pressing angle. That potential accessibility is spoilt though by all the LOMAC / Ubisoft palaver. Maybe they could get away from it by dropping the flaming cliff’s / LOMAC name? Probably not as simple as that because of the code base, etc.

It’s a shame, and from my point of view, FC is needed in order to provide a “shallow end” of the swimming pool (I presume ED hope that 3rd party will fill that vacuum and they can drop FC eventually). I for one got into DCS via LOMAC and would not have had the patience to come straight at Black Shark without it, but that’s just me. I bought DCS: A-10 as I loved flying the basic A-10a in LOMAC and then FC, following ironhands amazing video tutorials, etc.

 

There may be less button pressing to do in FC but the principles and tactics are the same between the SFM and AFM/DCS aircraft.

[leafer]

I skipped FC2 altogether and have spent only a little time in FC3. I've enjoyed it so far. Be warned, though, that, for the moment, the DLZs for the RUSFOR and to some extent US aircraft are screwed up. The R-27 and R-27ER, for instance, both present identical DLZs except for Rmin.

 

 

Rich

 

Pardon?

[Frostie]

Or, as someone said recently, FBMS is sex with the hassle of foreplay while FC is straight to the action/reward.

Depends on the state of the software, if it's a tired old hag thats had more pricks than a second hand dartboard then foreplay may seem a chore, but if it's some new hotness then i'm all over foreplay like a bee in daisy field.

 

Pushing buttons is procedure like setting up the washing machine, once learned it's never forgotten and pretty straightforward. You do this before the action, not during. If you're doing it in the middle of combat you're doing it wrong. And with the action is where the ace comes into it because it's the dynamic and unpredictable part, the part which requires constant focus, and a skill that's perishable by the day.

[Haukka81]

I don't know why you think just because you can press a few buttons that makes BMS hardcore. I have news for you....it doesn't! I play both and have been playing only BMS since Jan 2012 and I'm not bad in both sims. I consider A.S to be a very good pilot in BMS and back in FC2 and me and him have had a few good fights between us where neither have died. So DCS fast jet isn't going to be that big of a difference to a lot of people. One thing i see DCS doing is seeing more people dedicated to flying 1 or 2 platforms very well. Unlike FC2 were aces were good in every jet. This DCS/BMS clickable pit stuff you always talk about is bs and doesn't make as big a difference as you think.....well maybe for you. What name did you use when you flew FC2 online anyway? Just wondering if I ever saw you flying or did you do the only squad flying thing?

 

 

I agree, and BMS is GAME and SO is DCS too, complex game but game. (and these words are from man who sits in homemade pit :D )

Those click pits won't alone make good game. FXS has lots of buttons etc.. but is boring as hell (imho)

 

 

-haukka81

[mmaruda]

I think what some people here do not get, is the fact that for some of us here, simulation needs to be as realistic as possible, and once you get into that, there is no going back to the "press E for engine startup" thing. A real pilot has to push buttons and have a ton of knowledge to be able to fly the jet. Simple radio management requires setting up frequencies and using the proper channel, not just pressing "/". It's not about boasting that someone is able to play a game that is just harder to learn, it's about knowing how the real plane works in and out. FC3 might be fun (FC2 was and it's basically the same game), but the simulation level is simplified and that is a deal-breaker for someone who has been there and played it and moved on to something more challenging (like reading 700+ pages of a manual to be able to take off).

[Cali]

I think what some people here do not get, is the fact that for some of us here, simulation needs to be as realistic as possible, and once you get into that, there is no going back to the "press E for engine startup" thing. A real pilot has to push buttons and have a ton of knowledge to be able to fly the jet. Simple radio management requires setting up frequencies and using the proper channel, not just pressing "/". It's not about boasting that someone is able to play a game that is just harder to learn, it's about knowing how the real plane works in and out. FC3 might be fun (FC2 was and it's basically the same game), but the simulation level is simplified and that is a deal-breaker for someone who has been there and played it and moved on to something more challenging (like reading 700+ pages of a manual to be able to take off).

 

I wonder how many simulate failures then? That is something people don't like to do, cause it gets in the way of simulating flying and pushing buttons.

[Keyholebud]

First Impressions?

 

Wonderful!!

 

It really runs well, love the models. That desert Camo ot the f15C looks SICK! I wish we had a Desert Map for DCS. Iraq or like. Everything looks great. Was able to Upgrade my BS to 2 and integrate into DCS:World too. I can swear I got a FPS boost on all My modules. A10C, BS2, SU25.

 

ACCCCKkkkkkKkk!!!! SIMULATION OVERLOAD!!!! DADDY LIKEY LIKEY!!!!

 

 

 

Key:pilotfly:

[Keyholebud]

I think what some people here do not get, is the fact that for some of us here, simulation needs to be as realistic as possible, and once you get into that, there is no going back to the "press E for engine startup" thing. A real pilot has to push buttons and have a ton of knowledge to be able to fly the jet. Simple radio management requires setting up frequencies and using the proper channel, not just pressing "/". It's not about boasting that someone is able to play a game that is just harder to learn, it's about knowing how the real plane works in and out. FC3 might be fun (FC2 was and it's basically the same game), but the simulation level is simplified and that is a deal-breaker for someone who has been there and played it and moved on to something more challenging (like reading 700+ pages of a manual to be able to take off).

 

I want to comment here. since I'm Forty years old and been Sim. flying everything since well... Sub Logic Jet. Also always love my Study Sims. But It is easy for me to see the value in FC3. I also recognize that ED is starting something here and If i want to Ramp up I can. if I want to just hack and slash i can too. FC3 has given me something Nice to look at, at high FPS and i can practice my Dogfighting Fundamentals without being marred down with engine start ups, and checklists. Trust me i like checklists!!

 

Key

Edited November 15, 2012 by Keyholebud