TWS for MiG29s

[danilop]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1645481&postcount=5

 

It's coming! Great video.

[LeadDoctor]

Maybe that will get people to stop complaining about the F-15.

[JaNk0]

Can someone please explain how TWS works in the Mig? In the video the pilot just locked on to one target and yet managed to take them both down. Does the enemy aircrafts need to fly in a group for the pilot to be able to get a lock on both?

[104th_Cobra]

In TWS mode, there is an autolock. It seems You lock one bandit and the other get locked automatically. The radar has to be illuminating the targets, of course.

 

And if there are more then two targets in the radar cone? It seems this system is in process of being implemented. Let's wait.

[Exorcet]

In TWS mode, there is an autolock. It seems You lock one bandit and the other get locked automatically. The radar has to be illuminating the targets, of course.

 

And if there are more then two targets in the radar cone? It seems this system is in process of being implemented. Let's wait.

It probably acts like the RWR and assigns priority based on range.

[Cali]

Maybe that will get people to stop complaining about the F-15.

 

It won't, they'll say the Su-27 should have that ability to also. No matter what side...people will not be happy.

[danilop]

... which is good, because responsible developer like ED must attend to customers complains, which in turn results in more features and better flight sim experience overall.

[amalahama]

Why both targets have a stead, "perfect" lock in TWS? TWS only refresh target position each X seconds, therefore I would expect some sort of "jigging" in the HUD's target diamonds.

 

Regards!

[Kuky]

Why both targets have a stead, "perfect" lock in TWS? TWS only refresh target position each X seconds, therefore I would expect some sort of "jigging" in the HUD's target diamonds.

 

Regards!

 

I think its because radar is in track while scan mode... hence its tracking the designated contact, while scanning rest of the radar scan zone.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Kuky

[Wolverine]

It won't, they'll say the Su-27 should have that ability to also. No matter what side...people will not be happy.

 

But their whinning will fall on deaf ears as they will not have any evidence to prove that the Su-27S has this capability (because it doesn't). Unlike the MiG, where there was a video posted on these forums back in 2006 showing this ability.

[Dudikoff]

And if there are more then two targets in the radar cone? It seems this system is in process of being implemented. Let's wait.

 

Probably some kind of simple automatic target prioritization by the radar control system is in order (maybe the fastest approaching target track?).

Edited January 7, 2013 by Dudikoff

[ФрогФут]

 

And if there are more then two targets in the radar cone? It seems this system is in process of being implemented. Let's wait.

 

The radar will choose the most "dangerous" target as the second one.

[Alfa]

Can someone please explain how TWS works in the Mig?

 

Well in the "baseline" MiG-29 the TWS mode can track up to 10 contacts and based on this automatically picks the "most dangerous"(first tracked contact to enter missile engagement envolupe) for engagement - then automatically switch to STT for SARH missile launch when the selected target falls within missile launch parameters.

 

For the modified radar of the MiG-29S, the new TWS mode does practically the same except that:

 

a). of the up to 10 tracked contacts it can designate two(prioritised in the same way as described above) for engagement.

 

b). if R-77 missile is selected the radar doesn't automatically switch to STT, but allows for missile launch from TWS directly.

 

At least that what I have been able to dig out concerning the TWS functionality of the N019M(MiG-29S) and it also appears to be the way ED is implementing it.

 

In the video the pilot just locked on to one target and yet managed to take them both down.

 

Thats a good question - from what I have read there is something to suggest that the system automatically assigns an Mlink for each of the two selected contacts - i.e. after launching on first priority target, the system automatically switches to the secondary. But I don't know if there is a "target cycle" function.

 

Does the enemy aircrafts need to fly in a group for the pilot to be able to get a lock on both?

 

In the case of the real radar I would say probably the contrary - I have read that with the original N019 it was only possible to designate the lead contact of a group. If this also holds true for the N019M, then the two targets must be widely enough spaced for the radar to see them as separate targets - yet close enough to eachother to be covered by the scan zone.

 

But how ED is implementing this aspect I don't know.

[Teknetinium]

Alfa could you dig out for us about time to impact for the missile. Why is there no in FC3 on Soviet birds? I assume there should be one if they are using R-77.

 

From what I know Su-27S has it also.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Teknetinium

[159th_Viper]

Alfa could you dig out for us about time to impact impact for the missile. Why is there no in FC3 on Soviet birds ?

 

Good idea - corroborating info would help.

 

#95:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1637299&postcount=792

[JaNk0]

Alfa, thank you very much for the detailed answer.

A few more questions popped in to my head.

 

Target selection : (...most "dangerous" target...), how is that defined? The one that is closest? Or the one that has a radar lock on you ?

 

And if the second target is automatically selected, that means that I can't manually choose which makes it quite difficult if you are flying together with friends online and engaging a enemy group of 10 aircrafts. Then there is a possibility that you lock on to the same target since you can't choose?

[Alfa]

Alfa could you dig out for us about time to impact for the missile. Why is there no in FC3 on Soviet birds? I assume there should be one if they are using R-77.

 

From what I know Su-27S has it also.

 

Do you mean a timer function displayed on the HUD? - if so I don't know mate :)

[Alfa]

Alfa, thank you very much for the detailed answer.

A few more questions popped in to my head.

 

Target selection : (...most "dangerous" target...), how is that defined? The one that is closest? Or the one that has a radar lock on you ?

 

Yes its a rather silly term - it means the one that(determined by collected track info), will enter the engagement envelope of your missile first - i.e. range and closure rate.

 

And if the second target is automatically selected, that means that I can't manually choose which makes it quite difficult if you are flying together with friends online and engaging a enemy group of 10 aircrafts. Then there is a possibility that you lock on to the same target since you can't choose?

 

Yes that would be the situation - but again I am not certain about this and I don't how ED is implementing it :) .

[JaNk0]

Again, thank you for the info and quick reply!

[alexej21]

This might help, FC3 manual.

 

Auto lock on target in TWS:

 

TWS mode provides automatic target lock on (transition to STT). This is enabled by moving the radar cursor over a target. The cursor will "snap" to the target and follow it thereafter. Automatic lock on occurs at a range equal to 85% of the calculated maximum weapon launch range. The pilot can force an earlier lock on by pressing the [Enter] key.

[ФрогФут]

Yes its a rather silly term - it means the one that(determined by collected track info), will enter the engagement envelope of your missile first - i.e. range and closure rate.

Correct. And also if you wish (don't move the lock strobe on HUD), the plane will choose two most dangerous targets for you.

[amalahama]

I think its because radar is in track while scan mode... hence its tracking the designated contact, while scanning rest of the radar scan zone.

 

Sure, but real tracking while scan can be only carried out by AESA radars... Mechanical doppler radars do the trick recording previous tracking info, and updating the track's history when new fresh data is available.

 

That's why I think that, against maneuvering targets, some sort of jigging in the HUD's target boxes should be expected.

 

Regards!

[Haukka81]

Sure, but real tracking while scan can be only carried out by AESA radars... Mechanical doppler radars do the trick recording previous tracking info, and updating the track's history when new fresh data is available.

 

That's why I think that, against maneuvering targets, some sort of jigging in the HUD's target boxes should be expected.

 

Regards!

 

 

TRUE :thumbup:

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Sure, but real tracking while scan can be only carried out by AESA radars...

Well, if there is "real" tracking, i wonder how does "unreal" tracking works?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Alfa could you dig out for us about time to impact for the missile.

I don't fly F-15, thus I don't know details. However, the method of calculating Time to Impact has to include the movement of the target. Thus, radar must be painting the target all the time and the weapons computer needs to know location and speed of both, missile and target? Right?