Air-to-Air Missile Discussion

[Injerin]

Just Curious!

 

Does anyone in this community feel the Aim-7's and Aim-9's are broken when it comes to firing them from the F-15? "Just Curious"

[Exorcet]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=101998

[HiJack]

I just want a server I can play it on :)

There is a server in every installation, start hosting! :music_whistling:

[GGTharos]

What's broken about them?

 

Does anyone in this community feel the Aim-7's and Aim-9's are broken when it comes to firing them from the F-15? "Just Curious"

[ShuRugal]

time for R-27 love?

 

So, now that the SU-27 has gotten some flight model love, can we get some for the R-27? While i don't expect to be able to make kills at 65km (as wikipedia suggests is the max effective range for a head-on engagement of a non-manuevering target) I would like to see the missle go further than 30 before deploying its parachute.... As it stands right now, a missile launched between 25 and 50 km at a closing target has a pk of practically 0, even if the target fails to manuever.

[*Rage*]

Guidance is the issue not range.

[Kalastaja]

Missile update?

 

When will we get an update for the missiles? I know that they're WIP, but they're a big part of the game and i think that everybody would want them to work as well as possible. I WANT BVR!!!!!!!!!!!:pilotfly::pilotfly:

[Buckeye]

When will we get an update for the missiles? I know that they're WIP, but they're a big part of the game and i think that everybody would want them to work as well as possible. I WANT BVR!!!!!!!!!!!:pilotfly::pilotfly:

 

 

From ED? Your guess is as good as anyone's. Probably never since they've repeatedly rejected that they are terrible currently, but maybe eventually they will come around.

[NineLine]

From ED? Your guess is as good as anyone's. Probably never since they've repeatedly rejected that they are terrible currently, but maybe eventually they will come around.

 

Where was it that they repeatedly rejected there were issues with the current missiles? Can you link the posts for me?

Edited December 6, 2014 by NineLine

[Buckeye]

Where was it that they repeatedly rejected they were issues with the current missiles? Can you like the posts for me?

 

 

Posting from my phone so I'm not going to search for them, but I remember the one dev (Chizv?) defending his view that current missile modeling is accurate versus IASGAT's (and others') findings when the missile mod was first released with documentation. I actual remember there being quite a nice little argument/debate and being greatly entertained by it. There were graphs posted by him at the request of others that some felt were very misinterpreted, so on and so forth. After that day I pretty much just stopped reading about it because I figured it was a waste to even hope for it....instead, maybe someday I'll get a pleasant surprise. I do know that GG feels they could use some work which is promising and gives me a bit of hope. Further, through plenty of personal discussions with people who have communicated with the devs directly regarding their missile studies, etc. ED has been (at least at times) far from receptive (from what I've been told, admittedly it's heresy, but I've never felt I was lied to).

 

Ive read that ED at some point admitted the implementation of the AFM for the missiles screwed some stuff up, but it's hard to stay optimistic when I then see ED folks defending the current modeling as if it's accurate still.

 

Regardless, I deal with the missiles how they are and play accordingly without much complaint. The poster asked a question, I gave him my answer.

[NineLine]

Regardless, I deal with the missiles how they are and play accordingly without much complaint. The poster asked a question, I gave him my answer.

 

Which is your perception of what happened, basically Chizh request proof on the mod the way I understood it, I also know the discussion continued outside this thread, that doesnt mean ED said that missiles didnt need work, the discussion was how valid this mod and its data was compared to ED's own knowledge on the subject.

[*Rage*]

I want to add that the ER guidance at low level is really poor.

[GGTharos]

That is actually intended. All missiles suffer from some form of degradation at low altitude in-game.

[*Rage*]

That is actually intended. All missiles suffer from some form of degradation at low altitude in-game.

 

So at <10km what percentage should track assuming not notching, full lock etc?

[GGTharos]

I don't know, all I'm saying is that I know that mechanic is in there deliberately.

[*Rage*]

I don't know, all I'm saying is that I know that mechanic is in there deliberately.

 

Well its obvious that its modeled by ED. Im gonna test it formally I guess but i've just had 4 missiles miss at those sort of ranges because the bandit was cherubs.

[85th_Maverick]

I have a question guys and if it was answered somewhere else and I didn't find, please correct me:

 

Does the real SARH missile loose track on the target at which it was fired, if you select and lock another target as the missile is airborne? I don't know much about the real SARH missiles, but as the name suggests, shouldn't it be getting target data and trajectory calculations from the firing plane in almost real time (with some delay) and follow any target continuously even if you change it, or should it really loose track for good and stop listening to the firing radar/computer once the lock was broken on the first target?

 

"Tharos", are you here man? You know well about radars!

 

Thank you!

[c84]

Regarding AI BVR missiles, i submited ticket 2 days ago, so we will see.

 

1st. complain

excelent AI f-15 have a huge problem to kill non-maneuvring, no ECM, no chaffs/flares Mig. tracks attached. This affect almost all BVR missiles.

 

Can be solved if you decrease Range_max = values to roughly 60 percent, missiles_data.lua. Bu if you do that, you fail in integrity check when goes multiplayer

 

2nd complain

AI firing logic. AI always fire only one missile. Lets say this missile miss (sure do, see point1). AI waits until first missile hit the ground -cease exist (Especially missile fired at high altitude needs a lot of time to hit the ground) and only after that fire second. Perhaps i have high expetation, but i would expect something smarter.

AI AIM120.trk

Tacview-20141213-143911-DCS.txt.zip

Edited December 13, 2014 by c84

[Frostie]

Regarding AI BVR missiles, i submited ticket 2 days ago, so we will see.

 

Yes the AI are terrible but shouldn't you be making your own thread for that?

[c84]

Yes the AI are terrible but shouldn't you be making your own thread for that?

 

sorry, though it somehow fits here and it is not necessary make a new thread

[PFunk]

The R-27 has a lousy combat history. It's been used in one conflict, Ethiopia and Eritrea. The aircraft were flown by Russian 'advisors'. 24 were fired with one hit. The aircraft crashed when it tried to land.

 

BVR missiles are not reliable in RL.

[Frostie]

sorry, though it somehow fits here and it is not necessary make a new thread

Your track shows an AI firing a missile too early, the result of it firing too early is that the missile loses energy and starts falling out of the sky before it reaches the target. That and the fact a flight of 4 AI fire a total of 1 missile before merging is your issue, this is an AI issue and has nothing to do with this thread.

It doesn't fit here at all.

[Frostie]

The R-27 has a lousy combat history. It's been used in one conflict, Ethiopia and Eritrea. The aircraft were flown by Russian 'advisors'. 24 were fired with one hit. The aircraft crashed when it tried to land.

 

BVR missiles are not reliable in RL.

 

Yes just one conflict, the fact that the missiles were second hand downgraded export variants and that BVR combat is not a true reflection on missile performance but more of a reflection on how much pilots value their lives and how effective missile warning systems are against radar guided missiles are the telling factors.

If you were sat in a fighter and your RWR starts screaming at you what are you going to do carry on flying towards danger or save yourself? Obviously well trained pilots will save themselves, it is when it gets down to WVR that it can become the point of no return and where IR missiles become effective, especially high off bore missiles such as R73.

 

There is no conclusion to be made from pk for BVR shots in actual combat because BVR is all about suffocating the enemies situational awareness and increasing your advantages to control the airspace and send the enemy home. It works in the manner that SAMs work, they keep bandits away but if they stray too close they die.

[block ii]

ARAAM 120 FAIL

 

Hello people! ! !

 

* I use this simulator for several years that I am not a newbie I'm newbie just here in the forum, I created this against just to warn of an error in Araam 120C mode radar and RWS.

 

* I felt a great loss of performance at 120C missile Araam after the last update (Open Beta 1.2.14.35513) before upgrading eliminated an enemy of between 15 and 12 seconds distance and the enemy always eliminated with 100% success, but I am now unable to eliminated the enemies successfully between 15 and 12 seconds.

 

* We conducted several tests it was testing about 2 or 3 hours before this warning here in the forum really Araam 120C is not working properly.

 

* I noticed another mistake when Araam 120C is launched by the use of radar in RWS mode also is not working as it should, when fired missile does not follow the path.

 

sorry for any misspelling, i do not speak english ...

Edited December 23, 2014 by block ii

[unclepilotusaf]

request for correction

 

I saw my nephew playing game F-15C and I decided to play and noticed some errors. when I said I had some errors my nephew begged me to send the request for correction. child...

 

OK let's go

 

1° it is impossible select the other pages of the datalink , I searched the configuration of controls and did not find the option to change the page.

 

2° AMRRAM 120 / C does not function as in real life

 

In real life AMRRAM 120 / C can be launched with or without assistance of datalink, If the target is within its maximum range 42 NM

 

AMRRAM 120 / C when released activates its seeker for any reason whatsoever , it will ignore the datalink , you should confirm the target before launch to avoid friendly fire. only some models follows the trail AIM7 AIM120D

 

AMRRAM 120 / C can also completely defeat low capability jammers.

 

AMRRAM 120 C can also completely defeat high capability jammers , when missile approximately 31 NM , jammers becomes the trail , the jammers transmitter becomes target

 

In gameF-15C when datalink ignored or disabled , AMRRAM 120 / C don't follow its target he active only very close to the target ...