Any Landing You Can Walk Away From

[GreyBadger]

I've had another crack at the Landing tutorial and, well I'm on the tarmac... it wasn't pretty, but it was effective, it was safe and the Hog could certainly loop around to the start of the runway again and go for another flight.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think landing DCS's Warthog is actually pretty easy. (Yeah.. .I said it!) But landing it properly? Not so much.

 

I mean to say, the first time I ever took it up and flew a circuit, (at the end of the Startup tutorial where you are left to your own devices) I took it around the airfield "Microsoft Flightsim" style and then expecting nothing but a smoking hole in the ground I ventured in toward a seat of my pants landing. Only to discover that if you can land "MSFS"s Cessna, you can pretty much land this too. At least in a rough and ready format.

 

Add ILS etc into the equation though and so far it's a very different story. I'm sure that this surprisingly innate ability to put the Hog safely on the ground, will stand me in very good stead once the lights, dials, gauges and the machine that goes "Boing!" (Ok, there might not actually be a machine that goes "Boing!", but clearly there should be!) become second nature. But right now trying to concentrate on all these things at once is really cramping my style. I'm not looking good up there maaaan. :lol:

 

That said, this latest attempt was certainly my best so far. Not to mention much more fun with the recent inclusion of the "Trackir" and the "X52 Pro" I've mentioned elsewhere. Not thatI'm attributing the improved performance to these peripherals specifically. Not at this stage anyway. At least.... I don't "think" I am. But more things seemed to be "right" than have been up to now. I didn't explain that very well did I. Hey.. it's a Pilot feeling right? :pilotfly:

 

The ILS thing is still pretty much beyond me and clearly I'm going to have to break this down into it's individual parts and look at what I'm supposed to be seeing. Doubtless temporarily skipping the Navigation tutorial, because I just couldn't grasp it, hasn't helped here. But none the less this time I was obviously pointed in the right direction (a distinct advantage!) moving at more or less the right speed, talking to the Tower and asking proper permission to land, and while I obviously wasn't at the right height for most of the glide path, I think it's fair to say I was at the right height at least twice! If you count the bit where I ended up on the runway. :megalol:

 

At any rate I was fairly pleased with myself overall as I taxied. But then the instructor took the shine off it a little.

 

As I taxied down the runway, he suddenly piped up "Now you see the option to ask ATC for landing permission" (or words to that effect.) and I thought.."Umm..no, we already did that." Then as I turned off the runway and started toward the parking, he announced enthusiastically "Touch Down!!"

 

He's not Dustin Hoffman is he? Doing "Rain Man" and "answering a question from a half hour ago." :lol:

 

Badger

 

PS: Oh by the way, if I might just be allowed to make a quick "Trackir" comment/question, without hijacking my own thread.. Before Tir I had to wear my glasses to be able to read the HUD information and even then I had to lean forward for some of it. Now I still have to lean forward.. but the text doesn't get closer, it seems to move with me! (If that makes sense), this might be a real problem.

 

PPS: I wonder if changing the colour of the text might help me read it. How do I do that?

[Cookie]

Landing the Hog actually is easy. The approach speed is quite slow, it offers good visibility in all regimes of flight and the gear is pretty wide and sturdy. So yeah, getting her down is not all that hard, making it look good at the same time requires some practice though. And then there are those times when you limp home with half your wing missing, the tail pretty much gone and running on only one engine. That´s when landings do become interesting. :D

 

As for the ATC, it is broken in pretty much every way you can think of. To be honest, I myself just ignore it. I am sure it will be fixed eventually, but it´s probably not at the top of the priority list over at ED.

 

Zooming in: Just moving your head forward won´t make the text get any bigger, you need to zoom in for that. I use the TM Warthog HOTAS and have put the zoom on the right hand side friction slider. Maybe there is something similar on your stick/throttle that you can assign the zoom to.

[Faelwolf]

There's your problem, it's actually a machine that goes "Ping!" You should always have one handy in case the administrator comes by.

 

I never had any real luck with the landing tutorial, he left me pointed out to sea. Some work (and a lot of patience from my instructors) by the 476th was much, much, more valuable in ILS landing and navigation. Once you have a grasp of how it works, it all comes down to practice.

From what I understand though, the A10C is not really set up for a true ILS landing, you still have to take over visually once you reach the runway threshold, the insturments aren't rated or accurate enough to do a full landing with them. But they will get you to the runway and lined up properly in bad visibility. It's a great feeling to see the runway pop up out of the fog and be able to touch down right on the mark!

[jay43]

Well done Badger.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

A good landing will follow a good approach. Hopefully the following pic will be of some help; it shows the main things you should be looking for i.e. 3 degree glide and on speed.

 

[Maverick_]

thank you Flamin Squirrel! very helpful pic!

[Yellonet]

It IS quite easy, personally I've never had problems with landings in any flight sim.

I have a feeling that sims somehow make landings easier than they should be...

 

Made a track of a "special landing" :)

special landing 1.2.3.trk

[Nealius]

In time you should even be able to land without the HUD or ILS. Actually in Falcon BMS landing without the HUD helped my landings with all the fancy gadgets. When you spend too much time focusing on the HUD and other instruments (in VFR) you don't see what's going on beyond the HUD.

[Leviathan]

Why is it that you should use your throttle for altitude and your stick for speed? Seems like making an easy thing a bit more complicated for a noob like me :huh:

[Loki_]

Try landing at 160 if youre new to the hog. Run your speedbrakes out to full on final approach and maintain that speed all the way in. Chop the power once over the runway and you have plenty of time to ease it on to the ground. Just put it down within the first 1/3 of runway and you're fine.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Loki_

[Leviathan]

Thanks, however I'm not that much of a noob with landings in DCS (I hope). I can land safely and on the middle stripe of the Runway. It's just that this rule does confuse me/is new to me. For instance, I would have never thought about landing like the person in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB6Wt46kOm0, although I have to admit that it looks quite nifty. Is this the way it's done in real life VFR landings?

[Rusty_M]

Why is it that you should use your throttle for altitude and your stick for speed? Seems like making an easy thing a bit more complicated for a noob like me :huh:

 

It's counter-intuitive, true. When I was new to this, I just decided to ignore the why, and just do as I was advised.

 

Ours is not to wonder why, Ours is just to do or die.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Thanks, however I'm not that much of a noob with landings in DCS (I hope). I can land safely and on the middle stripe of the Runway. It's just that this rule does confuse me/is new to me. For instance, I would have never thought about landing like the person in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB6Wt46kOm0, although I have to admit that it looks quite nifty. Is this the way it's done in real life VFR landings?

 

I've heard the idea of pitch for speed, power for altitude theory before. Quite frankly I think it's backwards; it's how you'd fly a helicopter, not a jet!

 

As for the video, I'd say they have good aircraft control and their touchdown technique was good. However they landed short and may well have collected some runway lights if they'd done that IRL :music_whistling:

[Luzifer]

Why is it that you should use your throttle for altitude and your stick for speed? Seems like making an easy thing a bit more complicated for a noob like me :huh:

 

Because that's how physics work and DCS simulates it. If you do it backwards, for example push the stick when you're at correct speed but too high, you will increase descend but also your speed. Then you have to reduce speed with your throttle again, adapt pitch again, …

 

Just do it the right way around and you won't wobble around adjusting another variable because you adjusted the wrong one in the first place, it'll be easier and smoother.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Because that's how physics work and DCS simulates it. If you do it backwards, for example push the stick when you're at correct speed but too high, you will increase descend but also your speed. Then you have to reduce speed with your throttle again, adapt pitch again, …

 

Just do it the right way around and you won't wobble around adjusting another variable because you adjusted the wrong one in the first place, it'll be easier and smoother.

 

But if you're high, on speed and you reduce the throttle you'll still have to move the sick to maintain correct speed anyway. You can't adjust one without the other. Think about it the way that makes sense to you, neither is right or wrong.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

... that said, no automatic landing system will pitch for speed, power for altitude.

[Luzifer]

No, you don't. Reduce throttle and you will increase descend at the same airspeed. Pitch trim sets speed.

 

Unless you make a radical change, then you would get oscillations around the target speed and descend rate for some time and you should use pitch input to suppress those.

[Nealius]

Luzifer is right. But Flamin_Squirrel has it right about not being able to adjust one without the other. I'm a bit surprised no one really mentioned anything about AoA. If I am on glide path (or is it glide slope...I don't know the difference) but my speed is too high it is almost always because my AoA is too low. When I reduce power I increase my sink rate at the same airspeed just as Luzifer says, however I pull back on the stick to prevent an increase in sink rate (to stay on glide path/slope) and thus my AoA is increased, and my speed decreases. I keep reducing throttle and pulling back on the stick until I get that blue donut on the AoA indexer and as a result I am now at the correct approach speed.

 

I also don't use speed brakes on approach. For some reason it is harder for me to fly the thing when they are out, so I don't pop them out until I touch down. Full-down flaps helps a lot.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Nealius

[jay43]

... that said, no automatic landing system will pitch for speed, power for altitude.

 

In reality pilots land everyday using autopilot, all be it civil aviation pilots that is but they do.

I use auto pilot to coupled with path hold allowing me to descend on glide slope and gradually reduce power.

[Leviathan]

Nealius, I find that an interesting point you mentioned with the speedbrakes. They foil my landing slope, because of the fast reduction of speed, bringing me near a stall. Only thing to counter that is then to increase throttle, but that defeats the purpose of speedbrakes if you then have to increase thrust, doesn't it :D

[Flamin_Squirrel]

...but that defeats the purpose of speedbrakes if you then have to increase thrust, doesn't it :D

 

It doesn't defeat the purpose. Jet engines have slow spool up times from low RPM. High drag/high thrust means in the event of a go around, engines are nearer to full power and you can rapidly remove the added drag to get climbing quickly. High drag/high thrust also improves speed control.

[Leviathan]

So if I end up increasing the throttle steadily for the last hundred feet (when applying full flaps and 40% speedbrake) before the runway that's a normal process?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Why would you steadily increase throttle? Set 40% speedbrake, full flap, and throttle to maintain on speed.

[Donglr]

Why is it that you should use your throttle for altitude and your stick for speed? Seems like making an easy thing a bit more complicated for a noob like me :huh:

 

related question from my side: If I remember correctly from FSX IFR practice it was said, that for an IFR approach the above is not used. At IFR you do it "the normal" way of using the throttle for speed and the stick for attitude/direction control. Is that true?

[Leviathan]

Why would I increase thrust? Because when I'm approaching with let's say 180 KIAS and I apply full flaps, gear down, 40% speedbrake and 3° nose pitched down towards touch-down point, this configuration burns through speed so fast that i often drop below 120 KIAS and nearly stall. Though probably simply bad airmanship on my part due to lack of experiece i guess - but I'll keep on trying :)