Questions on optimal flight controls for this

[Vintovka]

After looking through several discussion threads on the upcoming DCS Huey I'm wondering which joystick, pedals, and possibly collective system out there to invest in.

 

I noticed in one thread someone mention the Thrustmaster Warthog might not be precise or sensitive enough for this simulation as it is very stiff. This was a bit of a shock as I thought this to be the best on the market currently and I am re evaluating my potential purchase into one for this product primarily.

 

As far as rudder pedals I see mostly in people's signatures either CH pro pedals or Saitek pedals. How would these fare in non fixed wing simulations.

 

Someone else mentioned that force feedback might be a necessity for this simulation. Can someone explain or possibly link some systems with this.

 

Lastly, if possibly the testers could come in and provide input on their personal flight control systems they use.

 

I haven't seen any helicopter specific systems that run in the $500 dollar price range.

[Krebs20]

Sometimes expensive isn't always better. I would say any joystick with an extension is what you want for your best control. Heavy curves will be required for flight with a short stick.

 

I have a copy made of this http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=83814. It works very well for DCS Huey. Infact, I would rate it best of what I have tested so far.

 

I have tested, TM Warthog (with and without extension), CH Fighterstick, MSFFB2 stock, PeterP's crazy joystick, and a Logitech 3D pro.

 

I would rate them from best to worst.

PeterP's crazy joystick, (Priceless)

TM Warthog extended ($400+$40?) & MSFFB2 ($60) tied

CH Fighterstick, (100$)

Logitech 3D PRO, ($30)

TM Warthog stock. (400)

 

I use CH Pro-pedals. You must have pedals or a twist axis to fly the Huey.

If you do not have track IR. Buy it. I would rather fly the Huey with the 3D pro and track IR over the PeterP joystick and no track IR.

 

I hope this gives you some clues to what to look for. You want a joystick with a very soft center. You need a rudder axis of some kind. You should really want a Track IR for the experience.

[pii]

After looking through several discussion threads on the upcoming DCS Huey I'm wondering which joystick, pedals, and possibly collective system out there to invest in.

 

I noticed in one thread someone mention the Thrustmaster Warthog might not be precise or sensitive enough for this simulation as it is very stiff. This was a bit of a shock as I thought this to be the best on the market currently and I am re evaluating my potential purchase into one for this product primarily.

 

As far as rudder pedals I see mostly in people's signatures either CH pro pedals or Saitek pedals. How would these fare in non fixed wing simulations.

 

Someone else mentioned that force feedback might be a necessity for this simulation. Can someone explain or possibly link some systems with this.

 

Lastly, if possibly the testers could come in and provide input on their personal flight control systems they use.

 

I haven't seen any helicopter specific systems that run in the $500 dollar price range.

 

Well I for one don't find the WH too stiff but to say its not sensitive enough seems laughable at best. I'm wondering why you would start looking to buy all sorts if stuff just because "someone" said it wouldn't be good for Huey? I would at least try it out myself first. I do agree peddles will be a must for any helo sim though.

 

Also its very easy to mod the spring on TMWH to be easier if your not manly enough to use as is.:music_whistling: :P

 

[dikkeduif]

I think no matter what stick you buy, you will have to get used to it. Most sticks have an option to change the stiffness, or adjust it in some other way, but still, most of the time you just have to learn how to use your stick. I don't think there's a right/wrong kind of stick.

 

I don't own a tm warthog (I have a saitek x52 pro), but to me it looks very solid, and I think you can fly the huey just as good with the tm warthog as with any other stick, as long as you learn how to use it :)

[cichlidfan]

Regarding stiffness...

 

Compared to an X-52, it definitely has a much stiffer action. However, once you have used it for a while it feels quite normal, at least in my case. With any stick you are going to have to get used to the feel.

 

FFB is nice but your options in that regard are quite limited.

 

Pedals are going to be much easier to use than a twist-stick since yaw control is so much more important when compared to fixed wing aircraft but even the twist-stick will be better than a keyboard.

[Chazz_BMF]

As to the warthog being to stiff, there is a way to remove the big spring, and make it super smooth. It works really well. I belive there is a video on how to do it on youtube somewhere!

[Subliminal-SS]

To Whom ever said the Warthog is to stiff, MTFU.

 

I used to have one, By far the most accurate stick on the market and made from solid construction. If you have sucked up the price, Sink the money you wont be disappointed.

 

And to who ever said it wasn't precise, id love to see what they are comparing it to.

 

At the moment, after a random life turn around i decided to Buy the X-65F this time round, to be different. While the construction ins't as "military grade" I just love the Force Sensing.

 

And it works more than well if not better in light and slow aircraft including helos for me..

[Suchacz]

I'm using Logintech G940 FFB hotas, which can be easily extended for a bit: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84518

 

It's great for flying helos.

[Derk]

There are a few options out there. However, since production is limited and demand low, the price for dedicated helicopter simulation hardware is relatively high.

Imho you'd be better off getting an extension for your current hotas stick and build your own collective.

 

Anyway, here are some off-the-shelf sollutions:

 

http://www.komodosimulations.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=14

 

http://www.simkits.com/products.php?groupid=35

 

http://www.flightlink.com/

 

http://www.pro-flight-trainer.com/en/

 

http://www.computerrepairs.ca/Simulator.htm

Scroll down for the "for sale" section.

 

and i stumbled upon this page that is pretty much the answer to your post:

 

http://www.helistart.com/helisimcontrols.aspx

[Vintovka]

Sometimes expensive isn't always better. I would say any joystick with an extension is what you want for your best control. Heavy curves will be required for flight with a short stick.

 

I have a copy made of this http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=83814. It works very well for DCS Huey. Infact, I would rate it best of what I have tested so far.

 

I have tested, TM Warthog (with and without extension), CH Fighterstick, MSFFB2 stock, PeterP's crazy joystick, and a Logitech 3D pro.

 

I would rate them from best to worst.

PeterP's crazy joystick, (Priceless)

TM Warthog extended ($400+$40?) & MSFFB2 ($60) tied

CH Fighterstick, (100$)

Logitech 3D PRO, ($30)

TM Warthog stock. (400)

 

I use CH Pro-pedals. You must have pedals or a twist axis to fly the Huey.

If you do not have track IR. Buy it. I would rather fly the Huey with the 3D pro and track IR over the PeterP joystick and no track IR.

 

I hope this gives you some clues to what to look for. You want a joystick with a very soft center. You need a rudder axis of some kind. You should really want a Track IR for the experience.

 

Wow this is shocking as I am currently using the Logitech 3D pro. I will definitely look into the CH pro pedals along with a CH Fighterstick. I don't quite understand the extended stick projects. I will have to look into them later on with more detail.

 

The comments on the TM warthog are out there in the threads I won't start linking the exact comments though.

[Vlerkies]

I have had a Dodgytech stick or 2 in the past but maybe I had bad ones cause they just gave probs, so lets not go there.

 

After that I have used;

X45 (loved that controller, the rudder rocker was awesome, at least I thought so)

X52

X52Pro

TM Cougar (horrible on stock gimbels and springs)

TM Cougar U2NXT with Hals (ridiculously good)

TM Warthog

 

The Hog is stiffer, to be honest the noticeable extra bit of force required to move it off the center point irritates me a bit.

Other than that its precise and a marvelous hotas.

 

I only moved away from the Modded Cougar because of the A-10sim and the Warthog marrying up so well, sorta plug and play.

The U2Nxt cougar was/is sublime with imho a perfect tension and free movement.

 

The x45 and X52's were also very nice, much less force required to move the stick, and now that I am used to the TM products the Saiteks feel like you are shaking hands with a used sanitary pad, rather sloppy. Not saying that's bad, just not the feel I am now used to.

 

I was crushed when my X45 died. Soldering on wires was breaking and switches/knobs were so worn they barely functioned.

This was after god knows how many hundreds of hours of abuse in IL2 mainly.

I loved that hotas, and the rudder rocker for me worked so well.

 

As for stick extensions. whether or not you set heavy curves or use and extension to dampen the effect I expect the result is much the same.

Actually the pronounced center point of the Warthog might prove useful with an extension.

I wish I could get rid of it though.

[sorcer3r]

. I will definitely look into the CH pro pedals along with a CH Fighterstick.

 

I also use the ch fighterstick. I have flown bell 206 (x-plane demo) and it works good with the fighterstick. The stick is very easy to move and I think this will be also helpful for the Huey. ;)

[pii]

The comments on the TM warthog are out there in the threads I won't start linking the exact comments though.

 

That's good since the huey isn't even out so how would they even know? :doh:The WH works fine with blackshark so why not the heuy?

 

Do you have a WH? if so do you think its too stiff? Do you think its not accurate? If you don't have a WH then I can understand possible looking for something else but to do it because a few say its too stiff and not accurate enough is laughable at best. The Wh is diffidently stiffer than a x52 but unless you have some sort of handicap you can easily adjust to it, and IMO its not even that stiff to start with. On top of that it takes about 5 minutes to remove the big spring and if you take some time you can find springs with different tensions so you could mod it to your taste for pennies.

 

Perhaps you should ask the Huey developers what they use to fly the Huey instead of listening to people that haven't even flown it yet?? :doh:

[pii]

Actually the pronounced center point of the Warthog might prove useful with an extension.

I wish I could get rid of it though.

 

You can

 

But it won't return to center as well after unless you get different small springs.

[Krebs20]

I will not tell you what to use. I never stated that the warthog was unplayable. It is very accurate. Just not my 1st choice with the controls I have at my disposal.

 

And pii, I have flown it.

[Cowboy10uk]

I have flown it.

 

 

You Lucky Lucky Lucky sod.

 

;)

 

Cowboy10uk

[Vlerkies]

You can

 

But it won't return to center as well after unless you get different small springs.

 

Hmm, Now where are my screwdrivers :unsure:

 

Interesting that thx. Without having looked at the guts of my Warthog myself, it might be a plan to insert ever so slightly more resistant springs in to replace those 4 small ones to provide the desired pushback.

Certainly worth a look.

[Suchacz]

Furia (Huey tester, R/L helo pilot) flyes it with G940.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1717503&postcount=660

Edited April 22, 2013 by Suchacz

[Grim_Smiles]

I thought about a grip extension for my warthog, but when I heard about having to mess with the wiring to do it I passed - too much money down the drain if I make a mistake. Figure I'll stick to tweaking the settings if I really need to.

 

If you don't have any issues modifying a warthog though, I did come across this DIY one made out of PVC, and there are others who have some for sale made out of metal.

http://www.hovercontrol.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=43&t=21908

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3184593/all/Selling_warthog_extension_offs

Edited April 22, 2013 by TooTall

[P1KW]

Without any doubt the G940.

 

If you have time and skill, and also as modified, is perfect.

1-Extender stick lever.

2-Add a collective.

3-Remove the spring on the pedals.

4-Post Hydraulic touch the pedals.

5-Connect the analog axes (throttle, wheels, rudder and toe brake) to a Leo Bodnar controller type.

 

Here's a sample.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=103059

 

Although HOTAS leave original, as manufactured, is not the best joy of the market, but if the most suitable to fly helicopters with ForceTrim.

 

Defects, (sooner or later will have to do a maintenance), it is also highly recommended and simple, point 5 -., To improve the response of analog axes.

 

But also virtues, the stick is very accurate, (hall sensors) and the FFB is strong enough.

 

Greetings!

[pii]

Hmm, Now where are my screwdrivers :unsure:

 

Interesting that thx. Without having looked at the guts of my Warthog myself, it might be a plan to insert ever so slightly more resistant springs in to replace those 4 small ones to provide the desired pushback.

Certainly worth a look.

 

Yes if you read the comments in that video some have done that.

I was thinking of trying it but then I was like umm I don't really find it that stiff. I had a 30.00 cyborg that was way harder to move from center and hated it for it. When it would finally break from center you always jumped about halfway throw its entire throw. I don't find I have that problem with the WH though.

Edited April 22, 2013 by pii

[pii]

I will not tell you what to use. I never stated that the warthog was unplayable. It is very accurate. Just not my 1st choice with the controls I have at my disposal.

 

And pii, I have flown it.

 

So they were all your comments?

So what is your 1st choice to use for it?

[Krebs20]

So they were all your comments?

So what is your 1st choice to use for it?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1730358&postcount=2

[RedRain]

I own both T/W & X65f, prefer the X65f hotas but prefer the T/W throttle. As I have a modified T/ flight hotas as a collective, I only use the split throttle as a throttle ( not collective), I do not use the T/W at all nowadays and use the X65f for everything (Shark, Bell 206 dodo, R22, P51d and even the A10c). The X65f takes a little getting used to,you can change your force settings in flight, heaps of buttons & rotarys to assign, no need for mouse & keyboard anymore, once I got familiar with it, there was no turning back. Every now and then I retry T/W to see if I missed something, but keep reverting back to the X65f. Don't think you could go far wrong with either, and both are well made. Good luck.:joystick:

[pii]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1730358&postcount=2

 

Well if you're willing to make a custom super duper helo controller it should be better but you might also be a little bias towards it since you either spent a lot of time making it or a lot of money making. Of course that my also be why I like the WH (Lots of $$)

 

Your rating of the WH last though seems a little harsh. What criteria are you using for those ratings?

 

BTW does anyone know where you can get a good FFB stick? They are all but impossible to find, new, and the G940 has been discontinued.

Edited April 23, 2013 by pii