Aries Radio System

[Eddie]

Not sure of the airfield in out tests last niggt, as Snoopy built the mission he will be able to give that detail. But as far as the quality even setting '9' on all 3 radios resulted in at best 3/5 reception and a real struggle for non native English speakers to understand comm traffic.

 

Disabling the mask effect dud help a little but only by Disabling voice distortion entirely can we work with it. But of course then it's too clear.

[shagrat]

Isn't it possible to have the client that receives the radio control the voice distortion smoothly?

We use "crosstalk" - a little "distortion" effect - to maintain immersion when training and flying casual. It is pretty neat, as it just distorts the comms on the receiving end. If you have problems understanding the others, just tweak distortion down...

Something like that would be cool for Aries distortion feature. Let the listener decide how "hardcore" he likes it.

 

...one other thingy for the wishlist: any chance to give the host an "Public radio channel" where he can broadcast a internet radio stream on an adjustable frequency?

RADIO Maykop for Aries...

I miss "Highway to the dangerzone" while in the F-15C... in the ralfidude videos they try singing themselves, but it's not the same. :megalol:

Edited October 28, 2014 by shagrat

[Schleudi]

But as far as the quality even setting '9' on all 3 radios resulted in at best 3/5 reception and a real struggle for non native English speakers to understand comm traffic.

 

Is it possible to send us a short TS3 recording with some examples? Then we can compare the degradation directly with our values​​.

[Eddie]

We can, but it will take a few days to get people together for another test.

[Snoopy]

Airfield was Sochi Adler. And we were all parked right next to each other. And to be clear this is about real world radio checks when active duty and reserves concerning A-10Cs not Aries.

 

I've done radio checks and/or been on the intercom with pilots testing radios on separate sides of an airfield and it's clearer than in Aries.

 

And to make sure this doesn't get lost in the discussion....

 

Secondly, did you purposely make the rotary on the intercom panel move with mic clicks? normal airborne operations, the rotary switch should stay in the VHF position, since it has no effect on VHF/FM or UHF transmission. The only time the rotary switch needs to be moved is when you desire to use MIC-FWD to speak on the interphone, in which case, the rotary should be moved from VHF to INT.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Snoopy

[towsim]

It is always hard to convince a normal TS3 user that concert quality is not that, what the aviators hear on a radio frequency. Even in our wing it took a while until it was accepted. The degree of distortion is another thing. I tried to construct it in a way, I heard it on my receivers over years. This experience , I have to admit, is not the newest. We used as backup the ARC34. The normal tower T/R were state of the art in the 90th. Beside that we used a independent T/R in our direction finding system. Surprisingly, the receiver quality was almost the same with each system. I observed differences with different frequency bands, different type of aircraft and whether a oxygen mask was used or not. We will discuss this topic with our team this night how to enhance the quality control.

@shagrat

Interesting idea. To implement a radio station should not be that complicated. It was planned in any case to have a ATIS frequency for each aerodrome together with Aries radar.

[Eddie]

Indeed distortion and static is a great improvement to realism, but what we had last night was way too much. It we heard comm like that we'd be pulling radios etc as unserviceable.

 

There also needs to be scope for better than real quality but still not 100% to account for those with no experience deciphering radio comm and especially non native English speakers.

 

While Snoopy and I could deal with what we had last night, people not used to radio usage and not native speakers, like Stuka were really having a hard time. Stuka actually said he simply couldn't fly like that.

 

I think "real" quality should be down at the low end of the slider instead of the middle to allow for plenty of tweaking.

[Snoopy]

And to be clear we (Eddie, Stuka, Noodle and I) love Aries, we're just trying to help refine and improve it. Eddie and I have years of experience testing radios on military aircraft as recently as the last few years.

[towsim]

Your reports are welcome. As I said, we have a meeting this night. We will discuss improvements. All statements will be subject of discussion.

[towsim]

For discussion: as attachment you find an audio file which contains a real conversation between a F15 and a F16. The communication is sometimes interrupted, probably caused by distance or terrain. This is what we call reception 'now and then' . The other remarkable situation is frequency block out while two parties speak at the same time. The overall real world quality seems to be worse than that in Aries Radio. But it is exactly what I had on frequency controlling fighter aircraft. What I can do for the community is to offer a wider range in the quality scale. For the moment it has 10 steps, which is obviously too less. The other question is, whether each client should set the quality for his own receiver. As soon as someone flies in a community he could set it to concert quality to have an advantage compared to other participants. If that is wanted... OK.

http://ariescon.com/031903-acm.mp3

[HiJack]

I vote for keeping it as real as possible :) Thank you for the hard work towsim :thumbup:

[Esac_mirmidon]

I vote for options.

 

As real as you want it or as clear as you need it.

 

Best solution for all.

[Snoopy]

IMO the host and not each client should set the quality settings. Not sure how that could be accomplished though. As it is now you can have a Group standard but anyone can go and force settings in others.

 

I vote for options.

 

As real as you want it or as clear as you need it.

 

Best solution for all.

 

 

 

But I'm open for this as well, internal SOPs or OIs can address max/mins for the respective squadron(s).

Edited October 28, 2014 by Snoopy

[HiJack]

I vote for options.

 

As real as you want it or as clear as you need it.

 

Best solution for all.

You can turn off this in the Aries radio plugin and then it affects all players. So please keep the radio as real as possible.

[Snoopy]

You can turn off this in the Aries radio plugin and then it affects all players. So please keep the radio as real as possible.

 

The difference is that it's not on a per player it's for everyone on said server.

 

I would just give more options in the sliding scales, happy middle ground. Eddie and I were fine because we both speak English as our native language. Toss in a pilot who's native language isn't English and he couldn't understand most of what we said even with the quality set to the highest currently possible.

[Esac_mirmidon]

In our virtual squad are all using ARIES as the standard comms software and all are very happy with it. With the previous version we were testing all options ( noise, background, filters, options ) and after a couple of flying tests we agreed with a common global setting.

 

Quality 7-7-7

 

Back Ground Noise 25.

 

And using jet1sound file for all inside cockpit sound effects.

 

With this settings all were very happy with a great mix of realism via radio effects but with enough clear sound for all.

 

With this new version ( very well received by us ) all modules except the A-10C works the same. The sound quality is the same and we appreciate a lot the new features. But we dislike a lot the new more distorted A-10C effects. Because only this module suffer it.

 

Call it realism, call it functionality but IMHO we, as a squad, need the option to adjust and tune ARIES to our own taste as a whole squad. If the noise is to big or the degradation to strong ARIES became useless for its basic function, TO HEAR AND TO BE HEARED.

 

So, our only intention is, keep a good level of personal tunning for us, users, to be able to choice our best internal solutions.

 

Forcing only one distorsion or background noise for the A-10C without the tunning option is a pain for us, only because is as real as real life, is not enough.

[Snoopy]

In our virtual squad are all using ARIES as the standard comms software and all are very happy with it. With the previous version we were testing all options ( noise, background, filters, options ) and after a couple of flying tests we agreed with a common global setting.

 

Quality 7-7-7

 

Back Ground Noise 25.

 

And using jet1sound file for all inside cockpit sound effects.

 

With this settings all were very happy with a great mix of realism via radio effects but with enough clear sound for all.

 

With this new version ( very well received by us ) all modules except the A-10C works the same. The sound quality is the same and we appreciate a lot the new features. But we dislike a lot the new more distorted A-10C effects. Because only this module suffer it.

 

Call it realism, call it functionality but IMHO we, as a squad, need the option to adjust and tune ARIES to our own taste as a whole squad. If the noise is to big or the degradation to strong ARIES became useless for its basic function, TO HEAR AND TO BE HEARED.

 

So, our only intention is, keep a good level of personal tunning for us, users, to be able to choice our best internal solutions.

 

Forcing only one distorsion or background noise for the A-10C without the tunning option is a pain for us, only because is as real as real life, is not enough.

 

Exactly why we did our testing yesterday. We had 476 vFG standards using the previous version but with the latest 9 8 9 (A-10C) wasn't clear enought for some.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Snoopy

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks Paulkrii.

 

Glad to hear that virtual squads works the same no matter what side of the ocean.

[shagrat]

I would like the option for quality on the receivers end. If a newbie is joining a MP flight it is hard enough, to get the flying and procedures explained, so he might want to miss out on the comms realism. Later when he is familiar with the procedures and so on he can get the quality slider towards the "realistic" end. At the same time the rest of the group can remain immersion and realism.

 

As I guess this takes some time to do, I would be happy with the host having more options to control quality and distortion effects for the group... as Paul said, the problem is if you have native and non native speakers mixed or just newcomers who just started with DCS and are still fighting with comms frequency and managing the aircraft.

[Snoopy]

I would like the option for quality on the receivers end. If a newbie is joining a MP flight it is hard enough, to get the flying and procedures explained, so he might want to miss out on the comms realism. Later when he is familiar with the procedures and so on he can get the quality slider towards the "realistic" end. At the same time the rest of the group can remain immersion and realism.

 

My question to you would be how often does a "newbie" jump into MP with a server requiring Aries? My guess would be slim to none.

[dooom]

Is there an updated list of supported modules or is it still restricted to a10/ ka50/ uh1/ p51?

[dooom]

.. Also , can Aries run on top of a multi monitor setup in full screen mode? I ask because I am unable to alt tab to external windows when in full screen in DCS

[shagrat]

I can only speak for me, but in our little group everytime we manage to "convert" somebody to DCS! Three times so far, that's why most of the time we are down to "crosstalk" and we have the newcomer set it with far less distortion until he is managing on his own and used to the sound... now Aries means the next level with managing radios, brevity and radio discipline... as I said, I wouldn't mind the quick fix with the better tweakability as it is now implemented. In the long run it would be nice to have the option for each participant to make a grown up decision if he likes it "full real" or a bit "casual" and still doesn't force all other players to tweak quality down.

 

In the end towsim needs to make a decision in what's possible and worth the effort anyway.

I'm not demanding, just state what I think could be an improvement, that gives more players a way to enjoy Aries.

[towsim]

The following types are supported directly:

A-10C, Ka-50, UH-1H,F-86F, MIG-21Bis, P-51D, FW-190D9

These types can even use the cockpit switches to set frequencies and volume. The additional panel can be switched off in this case. All other types, inclusive all FC3 models, are supported with a standard 3 band radio set. Furthermore, combined arms vehicles can even use the standard 3 band radio set.

Aries Radio uses an additional window to display the radio boxes. This implies, that the windows Z-order has to be controlled by Aries Radio. This is impossible in full screen mode. The additional window would be covered by the DCS window all the time. I will not initiate a discussion about the advantages of full screen mode versus windowed mode. I use windowed mode spread over 5 monitors and it works satisfactory.

For the discussion about the receiver quality:

A radio message in Radio is modified in two ways. The first is on the transmitter side. Here, the typical frequency band degradation, the mask modification and the type specific background noise is added. This includes even a hull modification which simulates a vibration in the pilot's voice because of rotor or propeller frequency. The second is on the receiver side. Here the distance, the horizon and the terrain between transmitter and receiver is measured. Based on the result, white noise, interruptions or complete cut off is generated. Since the receiver gets a already modified voice package over the internet, the modifications made by the transmitter cannot be suppressed.Only the modifications on the receiver side could be switched off. A user does not hear his own voice. Therefore the transmitter modifications do not impact him. He could only make useful changes if another player says "hey, speak into you microphone and not into your toilet drain". :D

Edited October 28, 2014 by towsim

[shagrat]

Ah, ok! I remember now, I read this a while ago :doh: So forget about the receiver side slider... can't be implemented, then, but thanks for listening, anyway.

Let's go for the fine tuning through the host, then.