bradmick Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Howdy all, Just picked up DCS UH-1H and started logging some time in it and was interested to see that she maneuvers like an AH-64D. I've fiddled with my controller sensitivity but just can't get her to stop being so touchy. Any ideas out there? I've flown the TH-67, the fine bell product she is, and I know that this sort of rotor system and helicopter (especially the much larger Huey) isn't that responsive. So, I wonder to if it's not a part of the way she's modeled and a combination of hyper sensitive controller hardware. To clarify a bit of what I mean, I expect the 64 to be nice and responsive, she's got the SCAS system (which i'm pretty sure the Huey doesn't) which gives me 'speed of light' inputs through a series of transducers to make up for the slop of the mechanical control linkages. I should expect a slight delay in the Huey and other non SCAS (or whatever flavor of name it goes by) Helos. Just some thoughts. Great product though! Beautiful model both in and out. Just gorgeous! V/R Brad McKinstry
Pizzicato Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Howdy all, Just picked up DCS UH-1H and started logging some time in it and was interested to see that she maneuvers like an AH-64D. I've fiddled with my controller sensitivity but just can't get her to stop being so touchy. Any ideas out there? I've flown the TH-67, the fine bell product she is, and I know that this sort of rotor system and helicopter (especially the much larger Huey) isn't that responsive. So, I wonder to if it's not a part of the way she's modeled and a combination of hyper sensitive controller hardware. To clarify a bit of what I mean, I expect the 64 to be nice and responsive, she's got the SCAS system (which i'm pretty sure the Huey doesn't) which gives me 'speed of light' inputs through a series of transducers to make up for the slop of the mechanical control linkages. I should expect a slight delay in the Huey and other non SCAS (or whatever flavor of name it goes by) Helos. Just some thoughts. Great product though! Beautiful model both in and out. Just gorgeous! V/R Brad McKinstry Hi Brad, You should take a look at in the Third Party/ Belsimtek/ DCS Huey forum. There are already LOTS of interesting discussions about control sensitivity in there. http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=263 i7-7700K @ 4.9Ghz | 16Gb DDR4 @ 3200Mhz | MSI Z270 Gaming M7 | MSI GeForce GTX 1080ti Gaming X | Win 10 Home | Thrustmaster Warthog | MFG Crosswind pedals | Oculus Rift S
ishtmail Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Hey, What helped me a whole lot was going into Controls, selecting the axes for the cyclic (X and Y respectively), go into Axis tuning and setting the Curve to +25 (pull the slider 25 points to the right). I did this for both axes of the cyclic, plus +20 for the rudder. This helped me a lot. I've seen some people setting as much as +40 on the cyclic, so go and try it out to see what feels good for you. DCS A10C Warthog, DCS Black Shark 2, DCS P51D Mustang, DCS UH-1H Huey, DCS Mi-8MTV2 Magnificent Eight, Flaming Cliffs 3, Combined Arms System: Intel i7 4770k @4,2GHz; MSI Z87-G65; 16GB DDR3 1600 MHz RAM; 128GB SSD SATA3 (system disk); 2TB HDD SATA3 (games disk); Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X; Windows 7 64bit Flight controls: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog; Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder; TrackIR 5; Thrustmaster F16 MFDs; 2x 8'' LCD screens (VGA) for MFD display; 27'' LG LCD full HD main display
Grenadey Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Hey, What helped me a whole lot was going into Controls, selecting the axes for the cyclic (X and Y respectively), go into Axis tuning and setting the Curve to +25 (pull the slider 25 points to the right). I did this for both axes of the cyclic, plus +20 for the rudder. This helped me a lot. I've seen some people setting as much as +40 on the cyclic, so go and try it out to see what feels good for you. Unfortunately if you have a FFB stick and want to use force-trim you can't have any curvature at all. This is where some form of control dampening option would come in handy. Grenadey Toad, Shark, Huey and Mi-8 driver. 27" iMac 3.4Ghz i7, 16GB DDR3, 2GB 680MX . Logitech G940 (modded), 2 x crappy Dell 1024x768 monitors for ShKval, ABRIS etc. TrackIR 3, Trackclip Pro.
PeroperoDokkiri Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Remember it's best to have lowest possible deadzone (0 works the best), and closest to linear axis. In my case it's 0 deadzone, and 20 curve, however I am going to test lower settings. I wouldn't actually mind Belsimtek cutting off edges of ingame cyclic movement so we can get extra "space" for controlling helicopter with closer to center movements. I don't think we'd ever use these extreme cyclic positions even with fully loaded helicopter, heavy wind and very fast forward flight etc. [sIGPIC]http://i55.tinypic.com/21oydlx.jpg[/sIGPIC] ヒューイ最高！o(≧∇≦o)
Nate--IRL-- Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Remember it's best to have lowest possible deadzone (0 works the best), and closest to linear axis. In my case it's 0 deadzone, and 20 curve, however I am going to test lower settings. I wouldn't actually mind Belsimtek cutting off edges of ingame cyclic movement so we can get extra "space" for controlling helicopter with closer to center movements. I don't think we'd ever use these extreme cyclic positions even with fully loaded helicopter, heavy wind and very fast forward flight etc. You can do this yourself - adjust the saturation setting in the axis options. Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading
bursco Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 You can do this yourself - adjust the saturation setting in the axis options. Nate Can you explain the saturation settings plz sir? Denis
Pizzicato Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 You can do this yourself - adjust the saturation setting in the axis options. Nate Can you explain the saturation settings plz sir? Denis The Saturation options allow you to adjust how far the IN GAME controls can move. This gives your REAL controller more resolution and precision. By adjusting the Saturation, you're effectively trading off your range of movement in order to gain more precision. This, of course, means that you CANNOT reach the edges of the Huey's flight envelope because your REAL controller can no longer deliver as great a range of input as the IN GAME controller. This isn't a much of a problem, though, as you're not flying a fighter and will rarely need the full range of movement. You'll want to adjust the Y Saturation Axis for your pitch and roll axes. I've got mine set to 75 and it feels pretty good to me. i7-7700K @ 4.9Ghz | 16Gb DDR4 @ 3200Mhz | MSI Z270 Gaming M7 | MSI GeForce GTX 1080ti Gaming X | Win 10 Home | Thrustmaster Warthog | MFG Crosswind pedals | Oculus Rift S
cichlidfan Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Actually, by using trim you can still reach the limits of the controls since once you trim, your virtual stick is back at zero but the Huey stick is not. You just don't have instant access to the full range of the controls. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup:
Pizzicato Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Actually, by using trim you can still reach the limits of the controls since once you trim, your virtual stick is back at zero but the Huey stick is not. You just don't have instant access to the full range of the controls. That's an excellent clarification. Thanks, Cichlidfan. i7-7700K @ 4.9Ghz | 16Gb DDR4 @ 3200Mhz | MSI Z270 Gaming M7 | MSI GeForce GTX 1080ti Gaming X | Win 10 Home | Thrustmaster Warthog | MFG Crosswind pedals | Oculus Rift S
EvilBivol-1 Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Unfortunately if you have a FFB stick and want to use force-trim you can't have any curvature at all. This is where some form of control dampening option would come in handy. Grenadey Check out the info posted here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1744419&postcount=7 - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules
todd022 Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Preface: I have a TM Warthog w/CH pedals After reading the sticky "How I flew a huey in arizona", I realized that playing with my curve/saturations, etc. was contaminating the "feel" of the helo. Furthermore, the regular pilot in that article stated that he doesn't use the trimmer at all (off). So, I have chosen not to use it either. I went back into my settings and changed everything back to 0 curve, 100% saturation, and when I fly I've been keeping the trimmer off. Have to say...I love the "full feeling" of the helo, and actually can manage it quite well now. It might be mental, but I don't feel like I'm second-guessing inputs based on the trimmer and stick settings that might be incorrect. Bottom-line: TRY IT! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Grenadey Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Check out the info posted here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1744419&postcount=7 Tried SimFFB and adding curves etc. I still think linear axes are better all round. I know a lot of folks will just say keep practising etc. etc. but I still feel that our hardware is just not as sensitive as the real thing. My opinions of course won't stop me flying and flying and flying..... Toad, Shark, Huey and Mi-8 driver. 27" iMac 3.4Ghz i7, 16GB DDR3, 2GB 680MX . Logitech G940 (modded), 2 x crappy Dell 1024x768 monitors for ShKval, ABRIS etc. TrackIR 3, Trackclip Pro.
EvilBivol-1 Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 You won't hear me criticize you for flying with linear input! It is in fact the ideal way to do it as long as you are satisfied with your control ability. Curve settings are there for people to adjust to their own hardware or just personal preference, but if you can avoid them, all the better. - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules
fjacobsen Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 Currently I havechecked curvature and then set the 10 points manually. The numbers are:0, 13, 25, 37, 45, 50, 55, 68, 75, 87, 100 for X and Y. This means that I have full deflection, but the area in wich the Hover point is, (45-50-55) still will be linear, but "flatter". This makes precise hovering much easier without the unlinearity that setting the curvarture slider gives. | i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz | 64GB RAM | RTX 4070 12GB | 1x1TB M.2. NVMe SSD | 1x2TB M.2. NVMe SSD | 2x2TB SATA SSD | 1x2TB HDD 7200 RPM | Win10 Home 64bit | Meta Quest 3 |
bradmick Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 Awesome! I'm still pluggin' away at it. This thing is still way to sensitive yet. Playing with the values that clamp down on the actual throw of the controls did a little bit, but overall made the aircraft nearly unflyable because I lacked control authority. Will keep pluggin' away and post what I've got when it's workable! Brad
EvilBivol-1 Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) As we've mentioned on the forums a couple of times, we've made some adjustments to the FM recently and hope to release it to you in an update soon. As a matter of personal opinion, I am very impressed by how much it resembles what we hear from Huey pilots. Don't expect anything radically different, it's just tuning of what's already there, but the stabilizer bar now has a stronger feel in damping out both cyclic input and abrupt attitude changes. In hover, small attitude changes will result in slip/drift more than pitch and roll, unless input is large enough to push through the damping. Edited May 10, 2013 by EvilBivol-1 - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules
HuggyBear Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Awesome! I'm still pluggin' away at it. This thing is still way to sensitive yet. Playing with the values that clamp down on the actual throw of the controls did a little bit, but overall made the aircraft nearly unflyable because I lacked control authority. Will keep pluggin' away and post what I've got when it's workable! Brad AH guys have no control touch? :) Just kidding, you're correct in your assessment of the current FM, I think/hope you'll appreciate the updated flight model. A lot of forum/email traffic between testers and devs have gone into the FM and they're working very hard to improve it. - Bear (A former CH guy who greatly appreciated his AH protectors) Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. - Robert A. Heinlein
hreich Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Thanks for the info...Will this dampening remove constant rolling to one or other side, during level flight? I simply can not get the Huey to flight level flight (in the horizontal pane)... As we've mentioned on the forums a couple of times, we've made some adjustments to the FM recently and hope to release it to you in an update soon. As a matter of personal opinion, I am very impressed by how much it resembles what we hear from Huey pilots. Don't expect anything radically different, it's just tuning of what's already there, but the stabilizer bar now has a stronger feel in damping out both cyclic input and abrupt attitude changes. In hover, small attitude changes will result in slip/drift more than pitch and roll, unless input is large enough to push through the damping. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Pilot from Croatia
HuggyBear Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 The update greatly reduces the unintended rolling, while still allowing the aircraft to realistically drift and wander. It makes it much easier to 'think outside the aircraft' rather than fighting it the whole time. - Bear Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. - Robert A. Heinlein
hannibal Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Preface: I have a TM Warthog w/CH pedals After reading the sticky "How I flew a huey in arizona", I realized that playing with my curve/saturations, etc. was contaminating the "feel" of the helo. Furthermore, the regular pilot in that article stated that he doesn't use the trimmer at all (off). So, I have chosen not to use it either. I went back into my settings and changed everything back to 0 curve, 100% saturation, and when I fly I've been keeping the trimmer off. Have to say...I love the "full feeling" of the helo, and actually can manage it quite well now. It might be mental, but I don't feel like I'm second-guessing inputs based on the trimmer and stick settings that might be incorrect. Bottom-line: TRY IT! i agree... and it really helps if you have an actual colective and a long shaft joystick (cyclic) find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
SPAS79 Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 Hello, first post here! Just got the Huey and it is a really amazing piece of work. Only thing is I cannot cope with the controls and/or FM. I can get the bird in the air, hover with a lot of wobbling and (kind of) land safely but the way I control the helicopter is really unsatisfactory to me... I want to mention I have time in flying real helicopters, although just for recreational purpose, and mainly light, piston engine ones (R22 and 44) so I would imagine the Huey to be far more stable than those... it is not!! Also to mention I have full size helicopter controls from Komodo Simulations (they work wonders in FSX and X-plane while flying helicopters) which are not helping much anyway. I really hope this new FM will improve things as the overall work done on the Uh-1H is impressive, and it just risks to be spoiled by how frustrating it is to handle... :D
bradmick Posted May 10, 2013 Author Posted May 10, 2013 AH guys have no control touch? :) Just kidding, you're correct in your assessment of the current FM, I think/hope you'll appreciate the updated flight model. A lot of forum/email traffic between testers and devs have gone into the FM and they're working very hard to improve it. - Bear (A former CH guy who greatly appreciated his AH protectors) I think I admit to being spoiled a bit in my first post ;) heheh, and hats off to you guys too. I'll tell you what, you guys have gone into some places and situations i'd have been like 'hell no!'. Spent many an hour covering infils and they were all interesting...lots of nerves going into dust clouds like ya'll do. It'd get real quite until the dust settled so we could see you all were down and safe. Look forward to the updates! The Huey is the one aircraft I wish I could have flown more than anything in flight school. Brad
RazorbackNL Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 For the best results leave the X and Y axis default. You really need the sensitivity of these axis to make those small and fast corrections to keep the Huey under control. I found that when you have spot on control over the collective (the ability to have smooth control) , it is a lot easier to master this wonderful bird. Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi) | AMD Ryzen 9 5900X @ 4,5Ghz | 128Gb DDR4 3200Mhz | beQuiet! Dark Power 12 1200W | 2 x 2Tb M.2 Samsung SSD | 2 x 4Tb M.2 Samsung SSD | Aorus RTX3090 Xtreme 24Gb | Windows 10 Pro x64 | HOTAS Cougar (heavily modified) | MFG Crosswind pedals | CH Throttle Quadrant | TrackIR5 | Oculus Quest 2 | VoiceAttack Aviate Navigate Communicate
wess24m Posted May 11, 2013 Posted May 11, 2013 See my hovering video in the tutorial section, I'm not using any curves or lessened saturation. You just have to make small corrections and changes to the cyclic. I'm using the warthog but should be the same for all but the sloppiest joysticks. The problem with curves is when you need full deflection it gets ramped up towards the end of the joystick travel and things get out of hand very quickly.
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