Your most creative ways of killing the engine?

[Megagoth1702]

Hey guys,

 

rightly there is a LOT of talk about the engine in this sim. People can't get it to run, people blow up their engines and what not.

 

I am new to the P51, have no idea of how the engine works and would love to hear some stories of "how to kill the engine". On one hand simply because I am interested in how the sim works under the hood and what factors are taken into account and secondly because I wanna try it myself and see what happens. On the other hand - let's test out how deep this sim goes!

 

Give it all! Not creative but well known - cutting down fuel when engine is runnin -> kills it. I am speculating about going up very high so the engine does not have enough oxygen to run but I doubt that the P51 can even get that high...

 

What are your most creative ways of killing the engine?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Mega.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Megagoth1702

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Not creative at all, you can only cut the engine cutting fuel as you said, but usual method is cutting mixture so no fuel remaining in the engine and it's safe for mechanics touch the prop, and you can also cut magnetos but it's unsafe (in RL) because you left fuel in engine. Well, a creative one would be letting fuel finish or selecting an empty tank. Apart from that you can't stop the engine even cutting batteries because magnetos still works. That's a secure in real life. If you want creative ways of killing the engine that would be "Benny Hills how to crash a P-51" or something like that :).

 

S!

[Bucic]

1. In low outside air temperature start the A/C cold, then immediately increase RPM, prop coarse.

2. Prop coarse at low engine RPM. Sounds awesome but the engine will fail sooner or later.

 

Both of the above should kill the engine.

 

 

A quick one:

3. In a high-speed dive set the prop to fine i.e. do a windmill braking. Engine will fail due to overspeed.

[Megagoth1702]

Thanks for the answers!

 

Sorry, what is prop coarse?

So extreme hot/cold environment does nothing to the engine? What about that QNH value in the mission editor?

 

Sorry, I am very curious at the moment, I am only at my DCS PC on friday-sunday and can play DCS for about 4 hrs total, so that's not much heh. I get pumped on information during the week and then test stuff when I'm home. :-D

[69iAFMike]

I usually get shot in the governor. From there it doesn't take long for the motor to fail.

Being stupid and playing around with the throttle, setting it from closed to open quickly several times eventually killed my horse too.

Edited May 16, 2013 by 69iAF~Mike

[Konrad Friedrich]

Take-off with closed RAM-air is very effective, too.

Happend only once to me because I accidently hit the close lever on my HOTAS but several online flyboys confirm the effectivenes of this kind of engine abuse :D

[KaspeR32]

Pretty sure if you don't let the engine oil temp raise, and then take off at full throttle, you'll destroy something important.

[Bucic]

Thanks for the answers!

 

Sorry, what is prop coarse?

So extreme hot/cold environment does nothing to the engine? What about that QNH value in the mission editor?

 

Sorry, I am very curious at the moment, I am only at my DCS PC on friday-sunday and can play DCS for about 4 hrs total, so that's not much heh. I get pumped on information during the week and then test stuff when I'm home. :-D

Prop=propeller

Fine=low AoA setting

Coarse=high AoA setting

 

EDIT:

Well, the above isn't necessary correct. I'd change it to:

Prop=propeller

Fine=low pitch angle setting

Coarse=high pitch angle setting

 

AoA implies angle between airflow (in front of a blade) and the blade airfoil chord. AoA is an indirect effect of propeller pitch setting and airspeed. Grab some manuals from A2A to see nice pictures and explanations on the subject http://www.a2asimulations.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=9 (look for the word 'manual' in the product description pages, e.g. P-47).

Edited May 17, 2013 by Bucic

[Konrad Friedrich]

Fine=low AoA setting

Coarse=high AoA setting

 

I'd add: >AoA setting of the propeller blades<.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Konrad Friedrich

[winz]

Fly upside-down for some time.

Or, close the oil/coolant cooling doors. :)

[Megagoth1702]

Thanks for all the info! :)

[Bucic]

You can learn a lot from the bug reports as well

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1762428#post1762428

[Echo38]

AoA implies angle between airflow (in front of a blade) and the blade airfoil chord. AoA is an indirect effect of propeller pitch setting and airspeed.

 

I've always been confused about course & fine pitch, because there are two (three, actually, at least) different airflow velocities coming at a propeller--air is "coming at" (relatively speaking) the propeller from the direction toward which the aircraft is travelling, and air is coming at the propeller from the direction toward which the propeller blade is swinging. So, if you take a snapshot while the propeller is horizontal, you've got air hitting the front of the prop disk from the front of the aircraft, you've got air hitting one side of the prop disk from below the aircraft, and you've got air hitting the other side of the prop disk from above the aircraft. Again, relatively speaking, and neglecting complex fluid physics factors.

 

So, when you're talking about the AoA--the angle between the prop chord and the vector of the "oncoming" air, which oncoming airflow is this? The one opposite of the aircraft's velocity (i.e. the air the aircraft is flying into), or the one opposite the propeller's spin (e.g. upward airflow, for the descending blade)?

[NoJoe]

So, when you're talking about the AoA--the angle between the prop chord and the vector of the "oncoming" air, which oncoming airflow is this? The one opposite of the aircraft's velocity (i.e. the air the aircraft is flying into), or the one opposite the propeller's spin (e.g. upward airflow, for the descending blade)?

 

The vector sum of both of those. ^

 

(the oncoming air as a result of the aircraft's movement through the air, as well as the oncoming air as a result of the propeller's rotation)

 

--NoJoe

 

[EDIT] Or would you subtract the vectors...? I forget. Math was a long time ago. :P Regardless, it's the vector that results when you combine those two vectors together.

Edited May 22, 2013 by NoJoe

[Bucic]

I've always been confused about course & fine pitch, because there are two (three, actually, at least) different airflow velocities coming at a propeller--air is "coming at" (relatively speaking) the propeller from the direction toward which the aircraft is travelling, and air is coming at the propeller from the direction toward which the propeller blade is swinging. So, if you take a snapshot while the propeller is horizontal, you've got air hitting the front of the prop disk from the front of the aircraft, you've got air hitting one side of the prop disk from below the aircraft, and you've got air hitting the other side of the prop disk from above the aircraft. Again, relatively speaking, and neglecting complex fluid physics factors.

 

So, when you're talking about the AoA--the angle between the prop chord and the vector of the "oncoming" air, which oncoming airflow is this? The one opposite of the aircraft's velocity (i.e. the air the aircraft is flying into), or the one opposite the propeller's spin (e.g. upward airflow, for the descending blade)?

There are too much airs in your description and it's missing a figure we can both refer to.

 

Fine/coarse - propeller pitch; angle between propeller blade airfoil and the plane of propeller rotation

AoA - angle between propeller blade airfoil and the airstream (its total vector of movement relative to the blade) //simplification

 

The rest is in the A2A manuals, as stated before. All nice figures. Grab them!

[MaverickF22]

Pretty sure if you don't let the engine oil temp raise, and then take off at full throttle, you'll destroy something important.

 

I'd like to talk about exactly this problem, yet also the same symptom, engine SALMS dead like a shockwave after a couple of seconds if the oil temp isn't higher than let's say 40C and you're at full WEP and full RPM, or if the throttle was set to full WEP and rpm (3000) for a couple of minutes, although the temperatures aren't over the red lines..., still the engine slams stuck!

 

How does ED replicate this damage effect to the engine? I mean..., why does it behave like this? How can a quite powerful engine like this merlin, with so much momentum accumulated at 3000RPM at full throttle just SLAM from 3000RPM to 0RPM in 0.0 seconds?

 

I mean..., it looks kind of hilarious..., at least we should see things blowing the hell up..., gaskets flying apart, pistons, shafts, whatever, just like in the movies...! Yet nothing! If this is to be simulated as an engine explosion..., there firstly has to be an explanation why does this happen, and secondly..., it should be an explosion, not an atomic one, but a least something blowing apart from the engine if this has to refer to a catastrophic failure!

 

 

Cheers!:thumbup:

[Merlin-27]

I'd like to talk about exactly this problem, yet also the same symptom, engine SALMS dead like a shockwave after a couple of seconds if the oil temp isn't higher than let's say 40C and you're at full WEP and full RPM, or if the throttle was set to full WEP and rpm (3000) for a couple of minutes, although the temperatures aren't over the red lines..., still the engine slams stuck!

 

How does ED replicate this damage effect to the engine? I mean..., why does it behave like this? How can a quite powerful engine like this merlin, with so much momentum accumulated at 3000RPM at full throttle just SLAM from 3000RPM to 0RPM in 0.0 seconds?

 

I mean..., it looks kind of hilarious..., at least we should see things blowing the hell up..., gaskets flying apart, pistons, shafts, whatever, just like in the movies...! Yet nothing! If this is to be simulated as an engine explosion..., there firstly has to be an explanation why does this happen, and secondly..., it should be an explosion, not an atomic one, but a least something blowing apart from the engine if this has to refer to a catastrophic failure!

 

 

Cheers!:thumbup:

 

Engines seize all the time in RL due to internal tolerances being pushed past their limits. It's a very sudden event when it happens. Also think about detonation and it effects on internal combustion engines. I have no idea if the prop would stop dead in RL but if you are pushing the MP past redline you are abusing the engine, and even if it does keep running it is not happy.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Merlin-27
Spelling error

[MaverickF22]

Engines seize all the time in RL due to internal tolerances being pushed past their limits. It's a very sudden event when it happens. Also think about detonation and it effects on internal combustion engines. I have no idea if the prop would stop dead in RL but if you are pushing the MP past redline you are abusing the engine, and even if it does keep running it is not happy.

 

I agree and i took in mind the aspects that could make an engine brake apart (internally) due to detonation in some regimes or simply too much force that the axle shaft or other mechanical components might need to withstand, but i didn't know how much it was the case here, because i thought that a warplane should also be trust worthy...!

 

So, from what you're telling me is that they've designed this merlin engine to be abused in RL more than it could withstand and make things blow away from it, if held at max RPM and max WEP throttle, in only a matter of seconds. But the manual says you shouldn't hold it in that situation for more than 5 minutes or bad things will happen to it..., yet it sometimes blows spectacularly even after a couple of seconds..., which seems more like a random failure and you can rarely reach those 5 minutes the manual talks about!

 

 

Cheers!:thumbup:

Edited August 2, 2013 by MaverickF22

[Merlin-27]

I agree and i took in mind the aspects that could make an engine brake apart (internally) due to detonation in some regimes or simply too much force that the axle shaft or other mechanical components might need to withstand, but i didn't know how much it was the case here, because i thought that a warplane should also be trust worthy...!

 

So, from what you're telling me is that they've designed this merlin engine to be abused in RL more than it could withstand and make things blow away from it, if held at max RPM and max WEP throttle, in only a matter of seconds. But the manual says you shouldn't hold it in that situation for more than 5 minutes or bad things will happen to it..., yet it sometimes blows spectacularly even after a couple of seconds..., which seems more like a random failure and you can rarely reach those 5 minutes the manual talks about!

 

 

Cheers!:thumbup:

 

 

Don't let me mislead you, I'm not saying that every possible engine failure is modeled... yet :smilewink:

 

Just stating that I'm pretty sure from reading and such, that most engine failures were not big fiery explosions like Hollywood tries to teach us. Also remember, just the fact that you were in WEP condition does not mean it is the only stress on the engine. Be careful with the relationship between Prop RPM and Manifold Pressure. If not at the correct placement (Mostly low RPM and high MP) or used too carelessly, your engine lifespan can easily be measured in seconds.

 

From my experience: Always avoid Low RPM & High MP situations and try to stay away from drastic RPM changes with full manifold pressure. And of course, watch coolant & oil temps always.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Merlin-27