Anti-Ship Issues

[FlankerNation]

Damn..., these whole guy are right when they're talking about the issue with the ARM missiles blowing up ahead shortly after launch..., but i've tested it today and it seems it only happens to clients, and as i was playing as server these problems wouldn't happen to me at all (except for that Molynia ship, which is something else) and i was able to fire and forget the missiles, from any range or altitude, with no problems. This problem affects more other servers though.

 

So it was only when my team mate and other players noticed me that there's something wrong with their missiles, then i watched them firing all their ARM missiles from different altitudes, ranges, whatever..., and they were all blowing up in front of them!

 

I'm always checking for the latest patches and updates before starting my server, so this is not the issue and so do the clients are updated...!

 

There really is a problem between the client and the server he joins!

 

Do I have to remake/rebuild all my missions that i've created in the earlier patches (created in 1.2.1) and which i've been modifying and re-saved up until the last updates (now 1.2.5), in order to clear this issue for people who want do do a SEAD, or is this happening from other reasons?

 

 

Thanks!

 

Have a good day!

 

In addition to the above mention problem there is one more thing I want to add regarding Sead Missiles and that is I noticed that it takes around 25 to 38 Kh-58U missiles to destroy Oliver H. Perry ship ?!? For me this is an unrealistic and I m talking about actual number hit on the target ship.

 

Also I made a mission to test the kh-31p missiles on AI planes attack on Perry ship ...... and guess how many missiles it took to destroy the targeted ship ?

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.................. 40 KH-31p Anti-Radar missiles to destroy Oliver H. Perry ship !

 

 

I don't know this is a bug or not but I m sure this is nor realistic and practical of damage model of the Ships or ARM's Missiles damage value.

 

For me I think its a bug, 10 to 15 missiles are enough to take a Perry Class Ship down or less may be.

[MaverickF22]

In addition to the above mention problem there is one more thing I want to add regarding Sead Missiles and that is I noticed that it takes around 25 to 38 Kh-58U missiles to destroy Oliver H. Perry ship ?!? For me this is an unrealistic and I m talking about actual number hit on the target ship.

 

Also I made a mission to test the kh-31p missiles on AI planes attack on Perry ship ...... and guess how many missiles it took to destroy the targeted ship ?

.....

........

...........

.................

.......................

.................. 40 KH-31p Anti-Radar missiles to destroy Oliver H. Perry ship !

 

 

I don't know this is a bug or not but I m sure this is nor realistic and practical of damage model of the Ships or ARM's Missiles damage value.

 

For me I think its a bug, 10 to 15 missiles are enough to take a Perry Class Ship down or less may be.

 

Perfectly correct mate..., i saw the same problem but shhishh..., i just forgot to tell about that one too:P..., some many problems are still to debate!

 

In FC2 that i've played for a while (where i did some good old school MTF ship strikes), it took me 2 maverick missiles to shoot (from an A-10 of course) and sink a Rezky combat ship or whatever it was..., just 2 maverick D version..., but now i have to shoot more than 1000, what a heck?

 

I still don't get the idea why did they "reinforce" all these ships so much! In reality..., i bet that only one missile of these types is enough to do such a damage to sink the whole ship in no time, or if we take the AGM-65D as an example, you won't need more than 4..5 missiles which to shoot evenly along the water line of an aircraft carrier in order to fully sink it..., or simply 1 or maximum 2 maverick missiles against any other combat ship seen in the simulator at this moment! The KH-25, 31 or 58 would do a lot more explosive damage than a maverick missile, so it should normally bring down a ship, much better than that!

 

So i don't know why did they make these ships so strong..., but let's hope they'll give us an answer!

 

 

Have a good day!

Edited August 21, 2013 by MaverickF22

[159th_Viper]

Regarding the Moliyna and as stated above, cannot target AAA with ARM's so no bug there.

 

Regarding anti-shipping, why not target the ship with dedicated anti-ship missiles? Why use ARM's in an attempt to sink ships when all they are good for is destroying radars?

Edited August 21, 2013 by 159th_Viper

[FlankerNation]

Nope !

 

Regarding the Moliyna and as stated above, cannot target AAA with ARM's so no bug there.

 

Regarding anti-shipping, why not target the ship with dedicated anti-ship missiles? Why use ARM's in an attempt to sink ships when all they are good for is destroying radars?

 

 

Sorry your answer is irrelevant to the question we asked. ARM are also good to sink the ships....

 

LOLz... your answer is like don't use bombs or rockets on Igla's & Manpads because (Guns) Cannons are dedicated for them and bombs or rockets are for vehicles.

 

And nobody said that you can't use Anti-Radar weapons on ships and as for dedicated anti-ship missiles we don't have it on Su25t and A10c...

 

Even in the official campaign mission of ED in the anti-ship mission they gave anti-radar weapons payload so the question still remains in addition to the ongoing issues with Sead missiles there is still the issue of their warheads value, the damage they make which is unrealistic.

[karambiatos]

IDK how a ship would sink if the hull was never damaged.

[159th_Viper]

....ARM are also good to sink the ships....

 

You see that is where you are mistaken, which might very well also contain the answers you seek. Think about it ;)

[Supersheep]

???

 

The last page made me wonder what to expect from the weapons.

For a ship to sink, you need water. And the radars are usually mounted on the mast, the highest point of the ship. Is there any water?

 

Maybe there's shrapnel and bent metal, and the ship might even be blind, but it's not going to go down in most any cases. Designers hopefully expected the thing to be shot at, and accounted for that.

 

This reads like only having a truck, yet thinking it should outrun a drag car.

Can it do it? Maybe in some limited circumstances. Would one bet on it? Me, nope.

[FlankerNation]

But still it is non realistic that it will not take around 50 to 40 missiles to take down a Destroyer Class or Cruiser Class ship... and definitely this is a bug and ED has to look into it.

[FlankerNation]

You see that is where you are mistaken, which might very well also contain the answers you seek. Think about it ;)

 

And NO i m not wrong you can destroy a ship with ARM missiles but not with numbers like 40's and 1000's hits but with 5 or 10 will do the job.

[FlankerNation]

Very strange and Unrealistic....

 

And one more thing I want add is that in FC2 when fired a ARM missiles to DD or CC Class ship, the missile damage radar of the ship hence now no radar detecting you from the ship and then we can go near the ship and used unguided rockets, bombs or guided bombs, rocket and missiles to destroy the ship. I mean in FC2 is more real but DCS its the backwards they are going....

 

Definitely this is a bug or they just didn't looked into it about this issue which clearly very unrealistic....:joystick:

Edited August 21, 2013 by FlankerNation
Grammer correction

[FlankerNation]

And also to correct me as I m wrong when I said "sinking the ship" i meant destroying it... Well, every ones knows when it is destroyed it will sink itself.. :P

[159th_Viper]

And NO i m not wrong you can destroy a ship with ARM missiles...

 

Yes you are wrong. SEAD/DEAD ordnance does not equal Anti-Shipping ordnance. If you cannot/will not/refuse to accept that simple fact then that's your prerogative.

[FlankerNation]

Yes you are wrong. SEAD/DEAD ordnance does not equal Anti-Shipping ordnance. If you cannot/will not/refuse to accept that simple fact then that's your prerogative.

 

I think that goes same for you my friend you are also prerogative on this matter.

 

Then why we detect ships radar, Then why we can launch ARM missile to it ?

Then why ED made a feature that you can detect Ships radar when you are having ARM missile payload. And if that is the case then ARM missile should destroy a ship with maximum of 5 to 10 (not 40 or 1000).

 

But nooooo you want divert the topic to somewhere else and ignore the real problem or the issue of the SEAD missiles meaning YOU (159th_Viper) cannot/will not/refuse to accept that simple fact then that's your prerogative....

 

:D So, Simple the SEAD missiles behavior in DCS World are unrealistic and their damage values are also take into account relative to firing them on the DD or CC class ships.......

 

ED should really see into this..... not you 159th_Viper.... ED

 

I hope you are not ED V159th_Viper

 

We need feedback from ED

 

 

again... u can kill DD & CC class ships with ARM missiles..... simple :D

[GGTharos]

Yes, you're wrong. ARMs guide to the ship's antennas, and while there is a CHANCE that a missile will not proximity-detonate near the antenna and hit the ship and start a huge fire, it isn't very likely.

 

Once the antenna is dead, you can't even target an ARM at the ship any more.

 

The warhead isn't designed to sink ships, nor is the trajectory of the missile.

 

That's what you have anti-ship missiles for.

 

And NO i m not wrong you can destroy a ship with ARM missiles but not with numbers like 40's and 1000's hits but with 5 or 10 will do the job.

[GGTharos]

You don't know what you're talking about ... simple.

 

again... u can kill DD & CC class ships with ARM missiles..... simple :D

[159th_Viper]

Good golly Miss Molly I tried.......:megalol:

[FlankerNation]

You don't know what you're talking about ... simple.

 

And you are ? then tell me this so it is correct that in DCW World it takes around 40 to 50 Russian ARMS missiles and 1000 AGM65D to destroy a ship ?

 

and this what you call is real ??? :huh:

[FlankerNation]

Good golly Miss Molly I tried.......:megalol:

 

Good lord and this is your effort of trying....:megalol::pilotfly::megalol:

[GGTharos]

The AGM-65D uses a shaped change warhead. It makes a little hole in the hull, and the rest of destruction is by spalling. But ships are big, so the damage is very contained - you'd have to shoot a very small ship to get results.

 

This is why the AGM-65G/K was made, with it's heavy blast-frag warhead, and it is a lot more capable against targets like buildings and ships.

 

ARMs should barely be even touching the ship in RL, they'd explode on, or most likely close to the antenna. They would damage the radar but they probably wouldn't do anything to the ship itself.

 

Want to sink a ship? Use an anti-ship missile.

 

And you are ? then tell me this so it is correct that in DCW World it takes around 40 to 50 Russian ARMS missiles and 1000 AGM65D to destroy a ship ?

 

and this what you call is real ??? :huh:

[NineLine]

Maybe the AGM65D is the wrong choice for attacking a ship? (and 1000 is a gross exaggeration unless you have a track showing a ship taking 1000 Mav strikes...)

 

Edit: and what GG said....

 

And you are ? then tell me this so it is correct that in DCW World it takes around 40 to 50 Russian ARMS missiles and 1000 AGM65D to destroy a ship ?

 

and this what you call is real ??? :huh:

[FlankerNation]

Yes, you're wrong. ARMs guide to the ship's antennas, and while there is a CHANCE that a missile will not proximity-detonate near the antenna and hit the ship and start a huge fire, it isn't very likely.

 

Once the antenna is dead, you can't even target an ARM at the ship any more.

 

The warhead isn't designed to sink ships, nor is the trajectory of the missile.

 

That's what you have anti-ship missiles for.

 

Then why ED made mission and training missions show you can fire ARMS missiles on ships. And when the radar is destroyed by the ARMS missiles why they are still on in DCSW when their radar is destroyed by the ARMS missiles ?

 

And if your are saying this is the real then oh my god.... :megalol: i hope your are not ED. Because what your saying doesn't make any sense at all.

 

and please its like you know a lot about anti-ship missiles then please give us list anti-ship missiles that we can use on Su25t to destroy CC and DD class ships ...:megalol:

[NineLine]

I didnt think the T was for antiship, isnt the TM the one that has anti-ship capabilities (not in sim of course), excuse me if I am wrong.

 

Then why ED made mission and training missions show you can fire ARMS missiles on ships. And when the radar is destroyed by the ARMS missiles why they are still on in DCSW when their radar is destroyed by the ARMS missiles ?

 

And if your are saying this is the real then oh my god.... :megalol: i hope your are not ED. Because what your saying doesn't make any sense at all.

 

and please its like you know a lot about anti-ship missiles then please give us list anti-ship missiles that we can use on Su25t to destroy CC and DD class ships ...:megalol:

[159th_Viper]

Radar still emitting after it has been hit by an ARM is obviously an issue worth investigating and I'll look into it. That us however not what you complained about in the first instance, ie ARM's not sinking ships.

 

Do us and yourself a favour and attempt to keep posts limited to one issue per thread/post. Don't throw the kitchen sink in an attempt to secure a hit - fails every time.

[FlankerNation]

I didnt think the T was for antiship, isnt the TM the one that has anti-ship capabilities (not in sim of course), excuse me if I am wrong.

 

But again why ED made missions showing that T variant can attack ships and why we can detect and shoot radars of CC and DD class ships ???

 

And CG is now talking about warheads which is also not simulated real in the game.... oh oops I called it a game...sorry real digital combat simulator :megalol:

[159th_Viper]

Dude you need to step away from the keyboard......you're confusing yourself ;)