Anti-Ship Issues

[FlankerNation]

Radar still emitting after it has been hit by an ARM is obviously an issue worth investigating and I'll look into it. That us however not what you complained about in the first instance, ie ARM's not sinking ships.

 

Do us and yourself a favour and attempt to keep posts limited to one issue per thread/post. Don't throw the kitchen sink in an attempt to secure a hit - fails every time.

 

As for sinking ships I was attempting to address the issue of ARMS missiles warhead which is very low in DCSW compared to real life.

 

In FC2 it is simulated correctly.

[NineLine]

Just cuz you can detect and shoot at something doesnt mean you should be.

 

As for what GG said, I am pretty sure you can load the "heavier" Mavs on the A-10C....

[GGTharos]

You realize that ARMs and the ship's damage model are two different things, right?

 

When it becomes possible to individually destroy ship components, things will work out better.

 

For now, you have what you have: Use anti-ship missiles to sink ships. Get it? ;)

 

You can't use Anti-Ship missiles with Su-25Ts. Su-25Ts would never be given such a task. Perhaps you should stop trying to do this? :D

 

I mean, you're talking crap about realism, and somehow you believe that a Su-25T could even get close enough to attack an AEGIS cruiser? I have a bridge to sell you :D

 

Then why ED made mission and training missions show you can fire ARMS missiles on ships. And when the radar is destroyed by the ARMS missiles why they are still on in DCSW when their radar is destroyed by the ARMS missiles ?

 

And if your are saying this is the real then oh my god.... :megalol: i hope your are not ED. Because what your saying doesn't make any sense at all.

 

and please its like you know a lot about anti-ship missiles then please give us list anti-ship missiles that we can use on Su25t to destroy CC and DD class ships ...:megalol:

[NineLine]

Isnt saying ARMs missiles an over generalization? There is many different classes of ARMs missiles all with different purposes...

 

As for sinking ships I was attempting to address the issue of ARMS missiles warhead which is very low in DCSW compared to real life.

 

In FC2 it is simulated correctly.

[FlankerNation]

You realize that ARMs and the ship's damage model are two different things, right?

 

When it becomes possible to individually destroy ship components, things will work out better.

 

For now, you have what you have: Use anti-ship missiles to sink ships. Get it? ;)

 

You can't use Anti-Ship missiles with Su-25Ts. Su-25Ts would never be given such a task. Perhaps you should stop trying to do this? :D

 

I mean, you're talking crap about realism, and somehow you believe that a Su-25T could even get close enough to attack an AEGIS cruiser? I have a bridge to sell you :D

 

Is this the way you solve bug issues saying to the community don't use ARMs missiles against the ships where ED have the put option to use them on ships...and while you are at it not suggesting which anti-ship weapons to use.

 

I think I am not talking crap I think DCS World simulation is crap and people like you are crap who still doesn't know the question yet that we are addressing about the SEAD missiles.

 

really 40 sead missiles is not real to kill a ship.

[NineLine]

Correct, because SEAD missiles arent for killing ships. Case closed?

 

really 40 sead missiles is not real to kill a ship.

[GGTharos]

You are, get over it.

 

SEAD missiles are not for destroying ships. You don't have any anti-ship missiles - at best, KH-25ML or S-25L to attack smaller boats, but they could cause a lot of damage to larger ships.

 

Want to attack AEGIS DD/CG with your one Su-25T? You should be shot down 30nm out. THAT is the real problem here.

 

As long as you believe you should be able to sink a volcano of anti-aircraft fire with your own Su-25T, you're talking crap. It doesn't even matter what missiles you have.

 

That's like saying you can sink Piotr Vielki with an A-10C. The game might let you do it, but it shouldn't be happening.

 

I think I am not talking crap

Edited August 21, 2013 by GGTharos

[Fishbreath]

[SFAL]

Its AMAZING... debeating if any ARM will sink any ship...in game... maybe...used to not anymore. Thank you developers.

 

But its sooo simple.. Anti RADIATION Missile... and thats the key..just look at the explosive yield.... small...

Anti SHIPING missile...explosive yield.... big to huge.... and the russian anti ship missiles are so fast that it makes the rear admiral shit in their pants at the site of a volly....

Mach 2-4...if that hits just the kinematic force is enough to break the ship in 2... but they explode too...

The Kayak is slow... yes...

 

If anyone is so adamant to sink anything biger than a molinya i advise to use the proper tool.

Just to give u an idea... if u have a can to open u would not use nail scissors would you? Unless u are starving and u are desprate to get SOME food. You normaly use a ..... tatata....a... wait... a ahh can opener :)

 

So those A10 pilots who want to go aginst a corvet size ship get 2 BIG bomb and try that... anything bigger...emm... ask the ship NICEY NICE to sink...

 

SU25T pilots use KH-29T up to 10.000 tons (designed to do this) or the KAB-500KR. Kh-25ML will tickle them if u want to...

 

Both of these HEAVY weapons are effective.... now to bring down a DEDICATED fleet defence guided destroyer or cruiser.... wait for the F18 and the SU27SM

 

Untill that dont go aginst big ships and or use AI ships with wait .....wait.... DEDICATED can opener.... or missile if u like

Edited August 21, 2013 by SFAL

[GGTharos]

Anti SHIPING missile...explosive yield.... big to huge.... and the russian anti ship missiles are so fast that it makes the rear admiral shit in their pants at the site of a volly....

 

:megalol:

 

Mach 2-4...

 

2 on the deck, you can forget faster if it isn't flying high. But the rest of your point is quite correct, this is why CIWS is pahsed out in favor of SeaRAM.

 

SU25T pilots use KH-29T up to 10.000 tons (designed to do this) or the KAB-500KR. Kh-25ML will tickle them if u want to...

 

I forgot about Kh-29 - very good point :)

[Grimes]

Every weapon in game has its own characteristics that make it better or worse at destroying certain objects.

 

Considering that all ARMs now use proximity detonation and have less explosive power than proper anti-ship missiles, why would you expect it to destroy a ship?

 

By firing an ARM at a ship you lose out on 3 things:

1. Explodes near the ship. Which causes

2. No Penetration damage. Which damages the ship less because

3. The warhead size is generally at least 2x smaller than an anti-ship missile.

[GGTharos]

That is a damage model issue.

[SFAL]

Even the Kh-29T will do no visible damage to something like the Pyotr Veliky even after two hits, which seems hard to believe. Maybe not sink it, but there should be some scratches in the paint...

 

It's still not a good idea to attack a ship like that with short range missiles like this. I had to fire over a dozen just to get 2 through its defenses...

 

 

 

Yeah well that beast has THE BEST defence on russian ships. As far i know only one is operational and the navy inteligence KNOWS all the time where she is.

 

The kh29t is not famus for its speed... its a robust all around trusty weapon....

If it would be the real thing u would not engage THAT ship with that weapon...

 

You would need ss-n-22 orP-800....etc

 

Try the mission editor with ai planes.... or try ship aginst ship.... in a dawn secanrio.... i promise its stuning to see all the missiles and cwis tracers....

 

 

:)

[TaliG]

And NO i m not wrong you can destroy a ship with ARM missiles but not with numbers like 40's and 1000's hits but with 5 or 10 will do the job.

 

IRL it is not possible to sink a destroyer or any other ship, with any number of ARM.

First 10-20 missiles may damage the ships radar (maybe), and then, except that the warheads are not capable of drilling 1 foot of armoured steel, you will have no radar left to target your ARMs to. IRL you can throw 1000 ARM missiles towards a ship. First 20-30 may take down the radar, the rest will just miss. If there is a bug, the bug is from the ship's damage model that lets you sink it with ARMs.

 

Then why ED made mission and training missions show you can fire ARMS missiles on ships.

:

 

So if a farmer tells you a story of a flying cow, you will come back and try to convince us that cows fly..:doh:

Do your research, watch a documentary, read a book.

OR, JUST STOP TROLLING.

 

 

 

Back to the SEAD missiles bugs, the only bug I can see, is for MP and some particular SRs

e.g. H46, H50. In SP they can be targeted and destroyed but in MP they can be targeted though the missiles will explode after launch.

[Grimes]

Just to illustrate the damage...

 

All missiles were fired on an Oliver Perry which has 2101 HP.

Kh-25MPU damage dealt: 10 (proximity explosion)

KH-25ML damage dealt: 154 (direct hit)

Kh-29T damage dealt: 390 (direct hit)

AGM-65G damage dealt: 861 (direct hit)

AGM-65D damage dealt: 149 (direct hit)

 

I did not attempt to hit the same spot with each test so its probably somewhat situation based on where you hit the target. Both AGMs hit the bridge and thus destroyed it, while the KH-25ML and Kh-29T hit the hull of the ship and caused hull damage. The whole point though is that each missile has different characteristics. The Kh-25ML and MPU share the exact same warhead, but exploding as a proximity fuse causes severe damage falloff. The AGM-65 data clearly illustrates to not be a fool, use the right tool. Which just so happens to be what most of us were saying anyways. :)

 

Now back on topic of SEAD missiles.

[L0op8ack]

Just to illustrate the damage...

 

All missiles were fired on an Oliver Perry which has 2101 HP.

Kh-25MPU damage dealt: 10 (proximity explosion)

KH-25ML damage dealt: 154 (direct hit)

Kh-29T damage dealt: 390 (direct hit)

AGM-65G damage dealt: 861 (direct hit)

AGM-65D damage dealt: 149 (direct hit)

 

I did not attempt to hit the same spot with each test so its probably somewhat situation based on where you hit the target. Both AGMs hit the bridge and thus destroyed it, while the KH-25ML and Kh-29T hit the hull of the ship and caused hull damage. The whole point though is that each missile has different characteristics. The Kh-25ML and MPU share the exact same warhead, but exploding as a proximity fuse causes severe damage falloff. The AGM-65 data clearly illustrates to not be a fool, use the right tool. Which just so happens to be what most of us were saying anyways. :)

 

Now back on topic of SEAD missiles.

 

Ticonderoga has area-based damage module now:), 'hit the same spot' may be a bad idea.

Check \Scripts\Database\navy\blue\ticonderoga.lua

 

In fc2, ARMs can sink ships while not damage the radar, it's pretty funny.

Edited August 22, 2013 by L0op8ack

[MaverickF22]

Regarding the Moliyna and as stated above, cannot target AAA with ARM's so no bug there.

 

Regarding anti-shipping, why not target the ship with dedicated anti-ship missiles? Why use ARM's in an attempt to sink ships when all they are good for is destroying radars?

 

That's correct..., but as people can see that the ARM missiles head directly for the middle of the ship, and not the radiation source..., they use this in their favor to destroy the ship, although it isn't realistic as we know!

 

As for what you've said about ARM's not being able to target AAA units..., why? I've been targeting and firing KH-25MPU's and 58's at shilka's M163 vulcans, which locked me up just enough for my ELINT pod to get a signal to lock for..., and the missiles hit these AAA's with no problems, so i don't get the comparison to Molynia in this case..., maybe i missed something!

 

 

Have a good day!

Edited August 22, 2013 by MaverickF22

[FlankerNation]

And I was.... right

 

I kept quite about anti-ship missiles in DCSW but CG and that other guy didn't mention to us the real data of the Kh-31 anti-radar missiles.

 

FYI or who ever wants to know both versions (A-Ship & P-Radar) has difference of 10 lb warhead and both have the same detonation mechanism which is "IMPACT", So when I put the Su-34 AI to attack ships it took around 40 missiles to destroy hence If I assigned them with the anti-ship version with not much difference of 10 lb warhead is more than the P version it will take them around 33 to 35 which still a lot to destroy the CC or DD class ship..... which is again a bug and ED should look in to this. Previous versions example like FC1 and FC2 was simulated correctly.

 

Kh-31p anti-radar missiles doesn't detonate on proximity fuse its detonates on IMPACT meaning it will penetrate and then explode.

 

Check the link out for proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-31

 

....and they are still more links to proof.

Check this link for proof:

[NineLine]

Ok, now you are talking about Anti-ship missiles, before you were talking about SEAD missiles... so I am lost to what your point is now? :)

 

And as far as I can tell by that wiki, the A & P are both anti-ship

 

And I was.... right

 

I kept quite about anti-ship missiles in DCSW but CG and that other guy didn't mention to us the real data of the Kh-31 anti-radar missiles.

 

FYI or who ever wants to know both versions (A-Ship & P-Radar) has difference of 10 lb warhead and both have the same detonation mechanism which is "IMPACT", So when I put the Su-34 AI to attack ships it took around 40 missiles to destroy hence If I assigned them with the anti-ship version with not much difference of 10 lb warhead is more than the P version it will take them around 33 to 35 which still a lot to destroy the CC or DD class ship..... which is again a bug and ED should look in to this. Previous versions example like FC1 and FC2 was simulated correctly.

 

Kh-31p anti-radar missiles doesn't detonate on proximity fuse its detonates on IMPACT meaning it will penetrate and then explode.

 

Check the link out for proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-31

 

....and they are still more links to proof.

Check this link for proof:

[FlankerNation]

Ok, now you are talking about Anti-ship missiles, before you were talking about SEAD missiles... so I am lost to what your point is now? :)

 

And as far as I can tell by that wiki, the A & P are both anti-ship

 

Yes I was talking about anti-radar missiles before telling that it's not much difference between them meaning the kh-31 p & a.

 

Because you guys keep saying use anti-ship missiles instead not giving the right answer that why it took 40 anti radar missiles to destroy the ship.

 

So, talking about anti-ship missiles proving my point that there is something wrong the missiles warheads which is modeled in-correctly in DCSW both anti-ship and anti-radar missiles.

 

I hope this is much clear to you otherwise god help ED making you two guys (CG & SiThSpAwN) moderator of this forum :joystick:

[FlankerNation]

Ok, now you are talking about Anti-ship missiles, before you were talking about SEAD missiles... so I am lost to what your point is now? :)

 

And as far as I can tell by that wiki, the A & P are both anti-ship

 

again point is it will not take 30 to 40 both Anti-radar or Anti-ship missiles to take down a CC or DD class ship.... Simple :doh:

[NineLine]

Which Anti-ship missile in DCS World takes 30-40 hits to sink a CC or DD class ship? Could you list the ones you have tested and get this result from?

 

Anti-radar (to me) doesnt mean anti-ship, so it vary well could mean the anti-radar missile you are using against a ship isnt designed for sinking a ship...

 

I dont think the tools for SEAD are the same tools for Anti-Ship...

 

again point is it will not take 30 to 40 both Anti-radar or Anti-ship missiles to take down a CC or DD class ship.... Simple :doh:

[sobek]

Check the link out for proof:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-31

 

 

Wikipedia is about as much proof of anything military as reading it off the image that your toaster leaves on a sandwich, especially when it comes to capabilities of russian missiles...

[FlankerNation]

I m talking about Kh-31 @ SiThSpAwN

[FlankerNation]

Sorry my bad ? Do you want the track file also ?

 

Have to wait for it because its very long I don't know have to edit may be...

Edited August 22, 2013 by FlankerNation
Forgot to add something