how not to get shot down / intermediate steps

[Geezuz]

Hi,

 

while I am now able to take off, fly around, come to a hover (somewhere near where I planned) and land and have figured out how to engage targets via Vhikr, I am having problems with target aquisition and threat evaluation.

 

Take mission convoy hunt for instance. I can fly to the area, put the machine into a hover and take out the north convoy. But then...I usually don't find any of the other 2 convoys, and if I move further into the area I get shot down very quickly without ever even seeing who is shooting at me? I am not flying very high, or fast. In fact, moving towards the objective I have to take care not to hit the power lines.

 

So where do I go? Beginner stuff I am already past, so what's next? How do I learn battlefield survival?

Edited August 27, 2013 by Geezuz

[Lizzard]

I pretty much had the same Problems (and still have). A first Step is to fly with Labels "on" I guess..to get a feeling for Battlefield Situations..(The die hard DCS Pilots gonna kill me for that:lol:)...but you know..I am a Noob too..so let the Pros tell you the real deal:)

[Geezuz]

I pretty much had the same Problems (and still have). A first Step is to fly with Labels "on" I guess..to get a feeling for Battlefield Situations..(The die hard DCS Pilots gonna kill me for that:lol:)...but you know..I am a Noob too..so let the Pros tell you the real deal:)

there are labels I can turn on? OMG...I never even thought about that. I guess that would help :)

 

Still wondering how those pros would do it - or how it's done in real life. I mean I understand using the terrain for cover, and staying below radar alt. and stuff...yet, still, since I don't know where any threats are, how do I know what terrain is cover? So yeah.

 

Oh yeah, funny story but I'm also having the exact same problems in the warthog...only in that I usually get shot down by SAMs and not AA - at least I am assuming these are what shoots me down.

 

well, in any case, danke schoen!

Edited August 27, 2013 by Geezuz

[Bushmanni]

When you venture into unknown territory you just stay close to cover or move from cover to cover and watch around you for incoming missiles or tracers when advancing. If someone takes a shot at you just get into cover. Before moving you should scan the whole front sector to make sure there ain't at least any already visible threats. The other way is to fly so high that you can see over LOS obstructions and then either kill or stay out of range of enemies. This of course assumes you can reliable find all the threats before getting in their range. Basically it all comes down to seeing the enemy before getting into trouble.

 

You can consider all terrain as cover that masks you from terrain (or airspace) that hasn't been verified as threat free.

[Mike Busutil]

Pre mission planning is a big help...

 

Look at the flight plan, read the mission brief's, look at the terrain. And don't forget to get your eye's up and and actually look for target's.

[Shiwaz]

Pre mission planning is a big help...

 

Look at the flight plan, read the mission brief's, look at the terrain. And don't forget to get your eye's up and and actually look for target's.

 

This is the approach that has worked for me so far... It def takes more time to read briefing, study the map and recon the skies and ground, than just labeling the whole battlefield, but i get the feeling im "doing it right", which is the whole reason im playing a sim. So why not simulate the meta-game aswell? :pilotfly:

[Lizzard]

The hardest Task in the Shark is doing everything quite slowly and tactical...Scan everything..look out of the Windows all the Time for IR Missiles and so on. If you rush into the Battle Area you will get Shot down very quickly. And ED loves to implement MANPADS popping out of nowhere. In the beginning it is really hard to fly, scan, evade and attack all at the same Time...this needs lot of Practise:thumbup:

[Suchacz]

Black Shark is not a front line warrior, try to handle it as it is a sniper :thumbup:

...always try to stay out of the max range of your enemies, Vikhr missiles has greater range than almost every unit in DCS World, except mid/long range SAMs. If you will get engaged by bad guys, break off to safe distance and repeat your approach with more recon.

 

And dont forget - lack of patience is a killer! :D

 

+ everything above me

Edited August 28, 2013 by Suchacz

[Scarecrow]

I'm also new to the shark and whilst the temptation to use labels is high it basically reduces every mission to a shooting range excercise.

 

Use your wingman to recon out in front you as you slowly progress along your route. Stay low i.e. 15-30 meters and use the terrain to hide.

 

Most of all though accept that getting shot down is gonna happen and that it is ok; its all part of the sim:eek:

[RagnarDa]

Think of yourself as a ground unit and put yourself in those spots that you would have wanted to be in if you where a ground unit. Unlike a ground unit though you can fly so what is under you doesnt matter (forest, water, swamp etc). I've heard that you are supposed to follow the same ways that water flows (ie as low as possible) but I often position myself on top of hills or mountain sides to have a good look down view of my surroundings and give my Vikhrs extra length. This probably wouldn't work IRL as you are contrasting yourself against a sky bakground but in DCS it works... Oh, and always FLEE if fired upon.

[Geezuz]

great advice all, but...my two main problems is finding targets - any at all - and secondly, in a mission such as convoy hunt you can't take your time - if you do the convoys leave the area...

 

I mean, even if I get shot at - I turned invulnerability on just to see once so I could just sit there and take my time - I still can't see/find what is shooting at me at times.

 

got all settings up high, and i believe I got the shkval stuff at 1024 (but not every frame).

Edited August 28, 2013 by Geezuz

[Lizzard]

IMHO Convoy Hunt is a rather bad Example...because I would say for Beginners this is a more andvanced Mission..The Targets are Moving..so you don`t have much Time to Hover, Scan arround, aim, shoot and take Cover at the same Time..and you have no Wingman for Recce....but as said before..it`s all about practice. And what shoots you down..na if there are no Bullet Hits you hear, it is mostly a IR Missile...my so much loved MANPADS..IR Missiles are very hard to evade..because there is no Warning at all..if you are lucky you see the Smoke Trail

[seikdel]

I don't really do nap of earth much if there's no reason to do it. In convoy hunt, you have air superiority. I typically go high and scan from 1000+m. Also, if you haven't mapped the zoom to an axis, do it. The resolution your monitor can display is far lower than what real eyes can see, and your FOV is already too big (you're looking at a 90 degree FOV represented on a monitor that takes up maybe 45 degrees of your actual FOV). Zoom in, scan around, zoom out. That's what helps me find targets.

[Geezuz]

Yeah I have the zoom mapped - I am using a profile for my hotas warthog that I found I think in this forum.

 

I am getting shot by bullets. I can hear the impacts. But I am surprised that convoy hunt is a more advanced mission. tbh at first I thought it had no threats to me from the briefing. Imagine my surprise being shot at!

However, going very high is actually intriguing. I never thought about that - why should I stay low. I might as well go high. Not hovering though at that altitude I take it?

 

I guess I should look around for some easier missions then to start off with?

 

oh and btw, i do have a wingman in convoy hunt. I just have no idea yet how you communicate with your wingman - or anyone for that matter. I am not really used to actual communication in sims...most I dealt with is the ATC in FSX.

[bumfire]

How not to get shotdown.

 

Easy, dont take off and you cant be shot down.

[Geezuz]

Genius! I'll do that. I bet it doesn't get boring at all; I have all these knobs and switches to play with, and sometimes lights and sound come on :)

[bumfire]

You can even eject and jump into a uaz and go for a drive instead, all whilst keeping your feet on the ground, better yet, turn on invincibility and you can drive your jet all over the map :)

 

Lots of fun to be had on the ground.

[Suchacz]

I don't really do nap of earth much if there's no reason to do it. In convoy hunt, you have air superiority. I typically go high and scan from 1000+m. Also, if you haven't mapped the zoom to an axis, do it. The resolution your monitor can display is far lower than what real eyes can see, and your FOV is already too big (you're looking at a 90 degree FOV represented on a monitor that takes up maybe 45 degrees of your actual FOV). Zoom in, scan around, zoom out. That's what helps me find targets.

+1

 

NoE flying is useful mainly when some radar threat is posible (SAMs, fighters) ...

[Lizzard]

oh and btw, i do have a wingman in convoy hunt. I just have no idea yet how you communicate with your wingman - or anyone for that matter. I am not really used to actual communication in sims...most I dealt with is the ATC in FSX.

 

For the Communication..you can have it simplyfied - Press # (at least on a German Keyboard), select the Wingman and give him Orders, or realistic..there you have to fool around with Radios and Frequencies (I don`t know anything about the realistic Radio Setting...I allways do it simplyfied:))..whether simple or realistic is set in the Main Game Options.

[Lizzard]

tbh at first I thought it had no threats to me from the briefing. Imagine my surprise being shot at!

FSX.

 

:) and for that...you know ED always implements Threats with late activation (Popping out if you enter the Battlefield)...so the Briefing is mostly useless to learn something about the Threat Situation..it is 90% N/A. So allways watch out..the Bad Guys are everywhere:lol:

[Maverick-X]

How not to get shotdown.

 

Easy, dont take off and you cant be shot down.

 

Not true, smartass ;-)

Now you can argue that you wont be shot down, but you still can be blown up

[buedi]

You can consider all terrain as cover that masks you from terrain (or airspace) that hasn't been verified as threat free.

 

And Trees still won´t cover us, right? You can fly through them and the AI can look through them. Or did this change?

[seikdel]

I am getting shot by bullets. I can hear the impacts. But I am surprised that convoy hunt is a more advanced mission. tbh at first I thought it had no threats to me from the briefing. Imagine my surprise being shot at!

However, going very high is actually intriguing. I never thought about that - why should I stay low. I might as well go high. Not hovering though at that altitude I take it?

 

I guess I should look around for some easier missions then to start off with?

 

oh and btw, i do have a wingman in convoy hunt. I just have no idea yet how you communicate with your wingman - or anyone for that matter. I am not really used to actual communication in sims...most I dealt with is the ATC in FSX.

 

You're hunting three groups of angry Georgians. Of course there are threats =P

Try going high and staying up there. It's harder for them to score gun hits if you're sitting a km or more above the earth, and you also have more reaction time if you see any missiles heading your way.

 

Additionally, try turning to the right of your suspected target area and using the zoom to look out the window on the door. It's a big window, and you can get a better FOV through it than you can just scanning with the shkval.

 

Yes, you can hover at high altitude. It's not always recommended, but it can help sometimes when you're searching for targets. If you're up at 3000m and 8km out from your target area, there are relatively few SHORAD assets that can effectively reach you.

 

As far as wingmen and radio comms go, it's bugged to shit right now, so don't worry about it too much. Wait for the patch that will fix the radios.