IvanK Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Where the Black And White image comes from. The telling bit is at 5:47 ! Again No Bar just a raised seal. Sure its an A4 but there were no real changes in this area between the variants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royraiden Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Isnt it visible here?: Yet still it looks to be lower than the gunsight. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Roy, your photo is at an angle so effectively your looking slightly down into the cockpit. Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJWest Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Edit - wrong answer. I've got my angles mixed up. :( Edited September 28, 2013 by AndyJWest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongodriver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 did the gunsight have any calibration to offset this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krupi Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 did the gunsight have any calibration to offset this? To offset what, there was nothing to offset? Windows 10 Pro | ASUS RANGER VIII | i5 6600K @ 4.6GHz| MSI RTX 2060 SUPER | 32GB RAM | Corsair H100i | Corsair Carbide 540 | HP Reverb G2 | MFG crosswind Pedals | Custom Spitfire Cockpit Project IX Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanK Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Isnt it visible here?: Yet still it looks to be lower than the gunsight. Roy This image: Is from the exact same aircraft. It was taken whilst this aircraft was still in the UK (With JME Aviation who did the restoration immediately before it was shipped to the USA. Again the vertical extent of the lip is easily seen here ...A lip is exactly what it is not a bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongodriver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 To offset what, there was nothing to offset? but it has just been explained there was, the picture out of the windscreen is 30mm higher than the real world, if you aim a sight through a refracted image then you are off target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJWest Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 but it has just been explained there was, the picture out of the windscreen is 30mm higher than the real world, if you aim a sight through a refracted image then you are off target. Yup. off target by 30mm. You think this matters? (Actually, I've worked it out, and I make it about 42mm, assuming the glass has a refractive index of 1.55, is 75mm thick, and angled at 25° to the horizontal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongodriver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Yup. off target by 30mm. You think this matters? Over distance yes.....massively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJWest Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Over distance yes.....massively Nope - the offset is constant, regardless of the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongodriver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Nope - the offset is constant, regardless of the distance. How so? all this refraction must also involve some prismatic effect, the light path entering does not necessarily exit at exactly the same angle, now there is no denying an angular offset gets pretty massive over distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJWest Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Bongodriver, the windscreen is a constant thickness. A beam of light is refracted by a certain angle as it enters, and back by the same angle as it exits. It ends up going in the same direction as it was before, but displaced sideways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongodriver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) ignore Edited September 28, 2013 by bongodriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJWest Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Look it up for yourself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongodriver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Look it up for yourself... No, of course you are right if the glass is even thickness then the theory is perfect, how perfect is the glass is what I was getting at, that aside my point about the 30mm offset is still relevant, get rid of the bar and make sure the image out of the windscreen is shifted up however much and we could try that as a solution. Making sure the gunsight is not corrected for this offset I might add. Edited September 28, 2013 by bongodriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJWest Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Shifting the image might prove costly, GPU processing wise. It might be simpler to tweak the model geometry to move the top of the engine cowling down - or at a pinch, to just move the pilot and gunsight up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Over distance yes.....massively The offset is not an angle - it is parallel to the original/correct line of sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Shifting the image might prove costly, GPU processing wise. It might be simpler to tweak the model geometry to move the top of the engine cowling down - or at a pinch, to just move the pilot and gunsight up. Such a shifiting is at least (relatively?) easy to implement, I think. For example the NVG mod of PeterP does that intentionally by adding some sort of lens effect. Some like it, others not so much - as it makes clicking/hitting switches difficult ... because of the offset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooseneck Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I'd bet that Germans being Germans, with the likes of Karl Zeiss et al on hand, that screen would've been optically almost perfect, with very little chromatic aberration or other distortions. I'd presume it would be laminated with some polymer or other though? That'd bring it's r.i. down significantly..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongodriver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) The offset is not an angle - it is parallel to the original/correct line of sight. I didn't say it was, I said an angular displacement might be possible if it was considered that the glass may not have perfect optical qualities, no way of really finding out so it's a dead issue. The point I started making at the beginning of the thread should really be the consideration, that's a mighty long nose, I agree with IvanK that from the photos there really isn't a bar at all but geometrically I'd really like to see how that nose affects things. There is however a fairly good argument for some refraction, with or without the bar then I think this should be considered. Edited September 28, 2013 by bongodriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MA_Goblin Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) The nose don't affect that much since the cockpit sits a wee bit higher than the engine cowling. According to my documentation and pilot comments it was a pain in the *** to taxi on the ground but in the air had a very good view all around giving a high SA on the combat. Edited September 28, 2013 by hakjar [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] _____________Semper paratus, In hoc signo vinces________________ PC: Intel i7-8700K (4.9 GHz), Aorus Ultra Gaming Z370 MB, Gigabyte RTX 3080, 32 GB DDR3 (3,2 GHz), Samsung EVO 860 M.2 500 GB SSD + Samsung 960 M.2 250 GB SSD Gaming: Virpil T-50 CM2, TM WH Throttle, Crosswind pedals, HP Reverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongodriver Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 The nose don't affect that much since the cockpit sits a wee bit higher than the engine cowling. Well they tend to on all aircraft apart from the 'Spirit of StLouis', unless they slope downwards along the line of sigh then they will be visible and it becomes more apparent the longer the nose gets, think about the sea fury and the deliberate design for that reason, the 190 does not have the same angled fuselage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MA_Goblin Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 It does slope away from the pit. Look at the pictures I inserted. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] _____________Semper paratus, In hoc signo vinces________________ PC: Intel i7-8700K (4.9 GHz), Aorus Ultra Gaming Z370 MB, Gigabyte RTX 3080, 32 GB DDR3 (3,2 GHz), Samsung EVO 860 M.2 500 GB SSD + Samsung 960 M.2 250 GB SSD Gaming: Virpil T-50 CM2, TM WH Throttle, Crosswind pedals, HP Reverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted September 28, 2013 ED Team Share Posted September 28, 2013 From 7:00m do my eyes deceive me, I can't believe this has happened again... :doh: And is that a very rare Gyro Revi? Couple things, you guys do notice that nothing is functioning in the cockpit right? Chances are these arent real, pilot in the seat vids, but just a rough "alpha" look at the cockpit view, so I dont know that I would judge too much on this. Its possible position of the pilot will still be adjusted and such... lets not burn the barn down just yet.... As for the bar discussion, real world, pilot view photos of what you are concerned with and I will inquire into it, otherwise its purely opinion based, your opinion against someone else. You cant bring other sim discussions into this because this is DCS not anything else. Hope this makes sense? We need hard facts to submit bugs, not opinion, no matter how well versed someones opinion is. Photos of the pilots view, in comparison with the view in game.... see the problem yet? We dont have a finalized view from the pilots seat in Sim yet. The gun sights, I believe they stated that they were going with this sight as it matched the one in the P-51D the closest, it was also discussed that the sight used on the 190 was in limited use and had dependability issues. That said, it was used in this aircraft, the devs have chosen this sight. Unless compelling evidence or information can be given as to why it should be changed, of which I cant imagine any... I would think that is the sight we are getting. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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