How do you break during a landing.

[Gonz]

I know that you can do speed brakes. That doesent work enough though. Putting my throttle all the way to idle still wont stop. I have heared something about wheel brakes though.

 

Thanks

[Blaze]

Wheel brakes just like a car. The default key is "w".

[Echo38]

It doesn't matter in the sim, but IRL you want to treat aircraft brakes much more gently than automotive brakes. Not entirely sure why, but slamming on the brakes in an airplane is generally regarded as being rough on the bird, whereas doing the same in an auto is okay. Part of it is that landing speeds in combat aircraft are generally higher than driving speeds in automobiles, but I was told by my CFI to avoid stomping on them even at taxi speeds.

[Skall]

I was under the impression that turning on anti-skid allowed for you to fully depress the brakes on landing and you won't skid, go nose over, pop a tire, etc.

 

When I land with the hog, after the nose comes down, I just press and hold full brakes on my pedal. Stops fine every time with plenty of runway left.

[Echo38]

Ah, yes--good call. I myself keep anti-skid off, because I prefer "stick & rudder" ships like the P-51; these don't have anti-skid, so relying on anti-skid when flying the A-10 teaches a bad habit, which will bite me in the nose when I go back to the P-51. : )

 

Anyway, to clarify, in aircraft which don't have anti-skid (like most single-engine prop aircraft), stomping on the brakes is generally hard on the aircraft and/or brakes, IRL. However, in the sim, brake wear isn't modelled (probably because the aircraft damage is not persistent from mission to mission).

Edited October 4, 2013 by Echo38

[aaron886]

Anyway, to clarify, in aircraft which don't have anti-skid (like most single-engine prop aircraft), stomping on the brakes is generally hard on the aircraft and/or brakes, IRL.

 

That, and more importantly, full braking in aircraft without anti-skid is generally going to result in... wait for it... skidding.

[WildBillKelsoe]

A proper landing would touchdown at the very runway threshold at 120-110 kts. from there, you open speed brakes fully and should decelerate using pulses of brakes. The A-10 lands by 'walking' the TVV datum on the runway during landing.

[Skall]

Ah, yes--good call. I myself keep anti-skid off, because I prefer "stick & rudder" ships like the P-51; these don't have anti-skid, so relying on anti-skid when flying the A-10 teaches a bad habit, which will bite me in the nose when I go back to the P-51. : )

 

Anyway, to clarify, in aircraft which don't have anti-skid (like most single-engine prop aircraft), stomping on the brakes is generally hard on the aircraft and/or brakes, IRL. However, in the sim, brake wear isn't modelled (probably because the aircraft damage is not persistent from mission to mission).

 

Agreed. On the P-51 I let it roll down the runway as long as it wants and only apply a tiny bit of brakes if I see the runway is almost over and I'm not at a good taxi speed.

 

It helps tremendously to map your brakes to an axis so that you can apply just a tiny amount when necessary instead of pressing a key for full on/off and having to pump the brakes.

[X93355]

What a lot of people forget is that Anti Skid operates the brakes at their maximum breaking right on the point of skidding but without skidding so this in turn generates the most heat. So with anti skid on, slamming on the brakes shouldn't matter.

Landing at high ground speeds would mean the brakes are on for longer and you run the risk of a brake fire (now that would be excellent if modelled in DCS).

In the MB339CB, when using the emergency brake it overrides anti-skid so you have to apply it gradually.

 

In the A10, I always land with the speed brakes deployed and a higher engine rpm

 

On this subject, who else gets an unrealistic skidding sound when their A10 comes to a stop?

Edited October 4, 2013 by X93355

[X93355]

Like most anti-skid systems, the A-10's anti-skid will not operate below a wheel speed of 10 knots. If you continue to apply heavy braking below this speed, the wheels will lock. Hence the skidding sound.

 

If that is true, it's still a god awful unrealistic sound :hmm:

[Echo38]

Dunno about that. It's a pretty heavy airplane, remember.

[lxsapper]

Anti-Skid is like an ABS on a car. It prevents Wheel locking in case of to much braking power beeing used. Using Anti-Skid is not a bad habit it's a safety measure. The system won't even engage in a proper landing, where you break gently and gradualy, using every decelerating resource at your disposal, eg. aircraft properly configured, speedbrakes, keeping your nose up after touching main landing gear and touching down on the TDZ to give yourself pleanty of stoping space.

 

It doesn't matter in the sim, but IRL you want to treat aircraft brakes much more gently than automotive brakes. Not entirely sure why, but slamming on the brakes in an airplane is generally regarded as being rough on the bird, whereas doing the same in an auto is okay. Part of it is that landing speeds in combat aircraft are generally higher than driving speeds in automobiles, but I was told by my CFI to avoid stomping on them even at taxi speeds.

 

In real life a hard landing on the breaks can lead to overheating of the landing gear, tire preasures rise and can blow up, hydraulics can catch fire, etc.

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2013 by lxsapper

[St3v3f]

A proper landing would touchdown at the very runway threshold at 120-110 kts. from there, you open speed brakes fully and should decelerate using pulses of brakes. The A-10 lands by 'walking' the TVV datum on the runway during landing.

 

Touchdown at threshold is way below the glideslope and approach speed can be up to around 150kts for an A-10, depending on the weight.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Touchdown at threshold is way below the glideslope and approach speed can be up to around 150kts for an A-10, depending on the weight.

 

you are talking about approach speed which is different from my "touchdown" speed. check.

[lxsapper]

Edited my post, my sometimes half dyslexic me, had wrongfully writen DTZ instead of TDZ. :)

 

And you are correct St3v3f the touchdown should be at the TDZ not the threshold, but I belive in DCS the glides for ILS are also misplaced guiding you to half way down the runway instead of the TDZ.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Ah, yes--good call. I myself keep anti-skid off, because I prefer "stick & rudder" ships like the P-51; these don't have anti-skid, so relying on anti-skid when flying the A-10 teaches a bad habit, which will bite me in the nose when I go back to the P-51. : )

 

Anyway, to clarify, in aircraft which don't have anti-skid (like most single-engine prop aircraft), stomping on the brakes is generally hard on the aircraft and/or brakes, IRL. However, in the sim, brake wear isn't modelled (probably because the aircraft damage is not persistent from mission to mission).

 

I don't think it's a bad habit to use anti-skid in the A10; it's a very different aircraft to the P-51. The P-51 weighs much less and typically lands 20-50% slower. You're also directly connected to the brakes too, so you've got better feel (well, in the real thing anyway), where as the A10 brakes are boosted. Besides, you're probably more likely to nose over than skid on a dry runway.

 

The extra speed, weight and lack of feel is why anti-skid is there, not because jet pilots are ham fisted :music_whistling:

[roadrabbit]

 

In the A10, I always land with the speed brakes deployed and a higher engine rpm

 

Why not follow the recommended landing technique? :D

 

40% speedbrakes on approach with 30 degs flap and the landing gear down. Fly the 'donut' accurately.

 

You will have power on to counter the drag from all three items: speedbrakes, flaps and wheels.. At the flare point, as Bill says, walk the TVV further down the runway by slightly raising the nose. Close the thrust levers and hold the attitude - wait for the touch-down. Do NOT 'feel' for the runway! On touch-down raise the speedbrakes to full, gently lower the nosewheel onto the runway. Then apply wheel-brakes.

 

Keep straight with rudder and don't select nose-wheel steering until below 50 kts and with the rudders at neutral (or you will shoot to one side of the runway or the other!).

 

Believe me - it works, and works well :thumbup:

Edited October 5, 2013 by roadrabbit
clarification

[Reaper_Mav]

Excellent explanation!

 

I also notice that, when depressing the "w" key, the braking is slow. This for sure has to do with the anti-skid system as already professionally explained!

 

Now, as I recall IRL, the amount of pressure you put on the pedals have for sure an effect on the amount of braking the aircraft will do.

 

By this I mean, when depressing the brakes all the way down, you will be hanging in your seatbelts. The system will allow for the amount of braking requested but not beyond the skidding threshold, proved the anti-skid system is on. ( duh .. i know but you never know. )

 

This is how it would work in a commercial aircraft and I would assume this would not be a whole lot different from any other anti-skid system.

 

As for braking techniques, they are like suggested before. Get your approach speed, touchdown zone, configuration perfect, thrust idle, touchdown, full speed brakes and hit that "w" key like you own it! That should slow you down on time.

 

Though I must say I am not quite sure when landing at max landing weight, you will be able to stop on a 1800 meters runway ... anyone any experience with this ?