The Laser guided missiles are broken

[pepin1234]

I have mention severals times this problem, but never in the Su-25A Forum.

 

Here again:

 

The laser guided Missiles don't work properly. To hit a target we should aim 5 or 7 meter behind the target. The reticle is not accuracy. One or two patches before was fixed but again back with the problem. We have this problem since the first day we got the 3D cockpit and still no serious solution.

 

This problem is causing an elevated risk of died in every flight. Pushing every pilot to attack with rockets every IR ground unit. Making this aircraft an easy target and unvalued aircraft.

Edited October 4, 2013 by pepin1234

[number3]

I have mention severals times this problem, but never in the Su-25A Forum.

 

Here again:

 

The laser guided Missiles don't work properly. To hit a target we should aim 5 or 7 meter behind the target. The reticle is not accuracy. One or two patches before was fixed but again back with the problem. We have this problem since the first day we got the 3D cockpit and still no serious solution.

 

This problem is causing an elevated risk of died in every flight. Pushing every pilot to attack with rockets every IR ground unit. Making this aircraft an easy target and unvalued aircraft.

 

I haven't tried this out with the latest 1.2.6 update 1, but in the original 1.2.6 patch and 1.2.5 this wasn't a problem.

 

I noticed that firing an laser guided missile requires constant adjustment to keep on the target until impact.

 

Personally I use a snap view (because the reticle dot will cover the vehicle and it's hard to see exactly if the dot is right on the vehicle) and constant adjustment of the reticle as I move closer to the target.

 

Can you post a video of this? Or try using a snap view to help keep the reticle right on the target.

[pepin1234]

Ok here is the Track. The same Problem is happen with all the laser missiles. We also had the problem before the Su-25A become a single module, but is still there.

 

When the two Kh-25ml are missed, of course every pilot should try with rocket against a IR air-defence :baby:

Laser missile Bug for Su-25A.trk

[number3]

Tried this out a couple of times and my missiles also landed a few metres behind the target. :fear:

[Darkwolf]

It's been a few patches that i find Kh25-ml quite unaccurate with Ka-50 too.

They always goes a few meter abover target, hitting a few meter behind target. Never hit anything with those, lately

[Horizon Line]

That's interesting. I hadn't this problem ever with the Su-25 module. As numbler3 said, keep ajusting the crosshair until impact. I could add to that some slight pitch or reasonable angle of attack in relation to the ground where the target is and some zoom to catch the target at naked eye with fair detail to the procedure.

 

Here's a video of mine during the initial patch 1.2.6 on the time period of a Kh-25ml launch. There's quite a few others Kh-25ml launches on this video and only that missile model (in the matter of laser guied munitions).

 

 

@pepin1234 I'll take a look at that track asap, as I'm not familiarised with the 1.2.6 patch 1 yet, but I'm willing to help this as much as I can as I love this bird/module. Something 'might' got weird with the last patch, but I can confirm none issue with the Kh-25ml precision on 1.2.5 (using Su-25Ts) and 1.2.6 (both). I was getting ~4 out of 10 misses by obvious lack of practice other than anything.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Horizon Line

[pepin1234]

Laser Missiles are ok with Su-25T. The Problem we have with the Su-25A and also Darkwolf say he have the same Problem with this Missile with Ka-50.

 

Horizon can you upload the Track of your Video? I am sure one or two patches before this issue was fixed and we have back again this Problem.

 

Nice Video, but maybe have been made with the patch I have mention before. Just test again and you will see the problem.

[Horizon Line]

Well, I got as extensive tests as I could with the frogfoot (Su-25) module. And same bad news. Something funky going on as another thing caught my attention in the end. The missile seems to lose power as close shots are dead on, in the laser position?

 

Here is three tracks I just recorded with DCS World clean out of mods.

 

The first pass on the tanker the shot was a hit, but that was a close shot for the Kh-25ml service against AA, which raises the question towards the missile model and not the Su-25's laser system itself. edit: as DarkWolf mentioned the same issue with the Ka-50.

 

The other two was against the linebacker, and the faulted behavior was reproduced from pepin1234 track. There's a screenshot showing missile ground hit distance on the first pass (both shots at far distances but in the missile range. No override). No screen shot record for the second, but the effect was pretty much the same. I couldn't kill the Linebacker at ideal range.

 

The material is here, at close and ideal ranges. I'm worried about this gorgeous bird now. :(

Kh-25ml test close Tanker.trk

Kh-25ml test far Linebacker.trk

Kh-25ml test far Linebacker pass 2.trk

Edited October 5, 2013 by Horizon Line

[Kuky]

Is this only with Kh-25ML or any laser guided missile on Su-25A? reason I ask is because I was using S-25L without issues, as long as I aim at target the missile will kill it, only if I shoot very close missile can miss because it doesn't have enough time to line up on laser beam (as missile is not very maneuverable)

[Horizon Line]

Is this only with Kh-25ML or any laser guided missile on Su-25A? reason I ask is because I was using S-25L without issues, as long as I aim at target the missile will kill it, only if I shoot very close missile can miss because it doesn't have enough time to line up on laser beam (as missile is not very maneuverable)

 

In further tests the S-25L is working flawlessly in max range and close range. Here follows the track. Two shots on the same target, the first obviously already took that armor down, the second just for test sake.

 

As I pointed out, maybe it's a Kh-25ml model issue with the last patch. On short distances it works like it should, on further ranges it starts to lose momentum too fast, I think. Something may be getting that missile range shortened.

S-25L test far and close M113.trk

Edited October 5, 2013 by Horizon Line

[Esac_mirmidon]

I have the same problem with the Su-25A and Kh-25ML missiles. It seems that the first attack pass runs fine but the following runs the Kh-25ML miss always.

 

The S-25L seems to work fine

Edited October 5, 2013 by Esac_mirmidon

[Silver_Dragon]

In the russian forum show a video some days ago show new air to ground AFM lasser testing, can be that affected to the kh-25ml guiadance or perfomance testing on 1.2.6?

[Kuky]

checked in 1.2.6 version... the Kh-25ML does seem to fly tad lower than laser beam (at least its lower to where I am lasing) and its not missile energy I think because it still has good speed before impact. I need to try in testing version also.

 

PS: Kh-25ML recently got AFM also so this could be the reason but I am not sure if the AFM was merged to 1.2.6 or not, its likely that it has

[26-J39]

Just tested this out and had no problems at my end. Fired one from 3000m and another from 1000m with good hits. I find launching from a higher altitude gives you better results. Remember laser pointer 1 pixel below the target can equate to meters before the target when at lower altitudes. That being said i find the missiles do fall slightly short when u have the pointer spot on target, I aim for the top of the vehicle and get good results.

[Kuky]

Tested again in latest tester build and it's working better... I fired 2 of them at max range which is now 7km by the way and I was about 1km altitude... first missile hit and here's screenshot of what 2nd missile did :D

 

So for now either shoot from bit higher altitude or closer or aim a notch above if shooting at max range and low altitude... it is true shooting from very low aiming even little bellow target can make large distance in missile miss and hitting ground way before.

 

PS: I don't think AFM was merged yet (not fully at least) as in 1.2.6 missile flies straight ahead (there is no AoA in missile attitude) while in tester build there is visible AoA.

[pepin1234]

I confirm that happen with every laser missil

[Horizon Line]

Just tested this out and had no problems at my end. Fired one from 3000m and another from 1000m with good hits. I find launching from a higher altitude gives you better results. Remember laser pointer 1 pixel below the target can equate to meters before the target when at lower altitudes. That being said i find the missiles do fall slightly short when u have the pointer spot on target, I aim for the top of the vehicle and get good results.

 

Is that work around simulation fidelity? Seems good enough if it's realistic. I say thank you, for this.

 

checked in 1.2.6 version... the Kh-25ML does seem to fly tad lower than laser beam (at least its lower to where I am lasing) and its not missile energy I think because it still has good speed before impact. I need to try in testing version also.

 

PS: Kh-25ML recently got AFM also so this could be the reason but I am not sure if the AFM was merged to 1.2.6 or not, its likely that it has

 

 

Could it be. That AFM info went over my head through the end of last month until now. Is aiming higher the way to deal with the missile now and it's all fine? If so, I'm game.Thank you for your time, Kuky.

 

Edit: I see. Then, it's all good. Bring more afm! Cheers.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Horizon Line

[Horizon Line]

I confirm that happen with every laser missil

 

Could you post some track of other laser missiles failing? Here, everything seems fine taking the Kh-25ml AFM into account.

[pepin1234]

I fired 2 of them at max range which is now 7km by the way and I was about 1km altitude...

 

Which Missile has now 7km!!!

[pepin1234]

Could you post some track of other laser missiles failing? Here, everything seems fine taking the Kh-25ml AFM into account.

 

Did you see my track before??

[Horizon Line]

Did you see my track before??

 

The cause of that behavior it's on previous comments. Is there any problem with other type of missile? Just trying to help, here.

[pepin1234]

The cause of that behavior it's on previous comments. Is there any problem with other type of missile? Just trying to help, here.

 

later I will unload one track with all the laser missiles. By me every of them have Problem. My Guess this maybe have relation with the 6Dof cockpit

[Alireza.kh]

when you fire kh-25ml from long ranges (max 12 km) the pipper dot should be higher than actual target , it depends on situation. fc2 was not like this.

 

need ED confirmation that it's real or bug, (i think it's real)

Edited October 5, 2013 by Alireza.kh

[pepin1234]

Here the track. The S-25L does not work as you can see. Never get the Launch authorize, so you can see I drooped this Missile. Then I use the Kh-29L and I get a hit but with a ridiculous short range launched when this missile is 10 km. After that I use the second Kh-29L in about 7km and you can see a miss.

 

So all the laser Missiles are Buggy for my Su-25A since the first day I got the 6Dof Cockpit. I have mention this before but any answer. So here are the tracks

 

PD: The S-25L was wrong like the Kh-25ML but thats what happen today with the Launch authorized is new.

Laser missile Bug for Su-25A-2.trk

Laser missile Bug for Su-25A-3.trk

Edited October 5, 2013 by pepin1234

[26-J39]

I watched the track pepin and then took control to have a go. Yep definitely a problem there, looks like the problem varies depending where on the map the vehicles are placed. Earlier in the thread my test was with vehicles below the mouth of the river south of Batumi.