Q about f15C TEWS

[dooom]

I have decided to learn the f15 after flying russian for many years.

 

i have a question about the TEWS. what is the scale when looking at the display in miles? On the SPO i can ascertain bandit distance by the lighting - i am having trouble deciphering how far away the airborne contacts are in the f15 when they pop up on my TEWS.

 

any advice? It would be handy in assisting my HOJ attempts.

[kk0425]

It's based on signal strength, similar to the Russian RWR. The stronger the signal the closer it will show to the center on the TWES. You kind of have to use your best judgement based on what threat you're facing.

[Crescendo]

As kk0425 said, the RWR works in the same manner as the Russian one: signal strength. So the stronger the emitter source, the closer the relevant symbol will be to the center of the RWR display (your ownship).

 

The general idea is that a threat is within lethal range when it enters the 'inner ring' of the RWR display. You can see this inner ring (and the outer ring) by looking at the A-10C RWR. However, for whatever reason, the F-15 RWR doesn't have this feature. Maybe someone more knowledgeable knows why.

 

In any case, I pretend that the F-15 RWR does have an inner ring - it's easy enough to imagine where it would be if it actually had one. If a symbol is outside of this imaginary inner ring, I operate as if it's currently non-lethal. If a symbol encroaches inside this imaginary inner ring, I treat it as an imminent danger. It seems to work well in my experience.

 

As for "ascertaining bandit distance by the lighting" in the Russian jets, I think this is a bit of a 'gamey' mindset. We all do it of course (i.e. two bars is within XX miles etc), but I don't think RWRs are so accurate and reliable in the real world. I think the western RWRs are probably a better reflection of the 'messy' nature of RWRs, in the that they make it more difficult to deduce a precise range to the target.

 

That said, due to the simplistic modelling of RWRs in DCS, you can still 'cheat' and use the F-15 RWR to get a range to target. For example, you could pick a non-moving reference point on the RWR itself and compare it to a reference point on a moving symbol, and then use tacview to measure the range between you and the target when the two points meet (e.g. when middle of the "29" symbol is in line with the 10-2 o'clock line, the bandit is within XX miles). Naturally it's harder to guesstimate with western symbology than it is with Russian bars, and in any case, engaging is such 'gamey' behaviour is against the spirit of what an RWR is and how it operates.

 

Again, the only reason why these range-deduction tricks work is because RWRs in DCS are infallible 'all-seeing-eyes' with perfect reliability and perfect consistency/reproduction, which is absurd and a limitation of the simulation's RWR model in my opinion.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Crescendo

[GGTharos]

There are a lot of things that are not modeled in the F-15 TEWS, including display functions that add to SA, and the 'under the hood' functionality that makes it all happen. The threat ring is part of it, and there are other things as well.

 

As for 'ranging with bars', if you ever get your hands on an F-15 -34, you can very quickly infer that the radar can change the emitted power automatically based on various things.

 

I know of no sim that models all that stuff.

[dooom]

ok - thanks everyone.

 

That said - am i correct to assume that there is no way to "presume" the distance from TEWS center to 50% (virtual inner ring) can be equated to a rough 50 nm for example? When i see the contacts on the TEWS, I am trying to do a quick mental calculation on range if possible.

[GGTharos]

The distance will always be consistent, so yes, you can guess/measure range.

[FLANKERATOR]

Imagine the cross at the center of the TEWS fitting inside a ring, that ring is equivalent to 1 SPO light-emitting diode which is around 10 km for a jet onborad radar and 1km for an ARH missile, of course in FC. From there you can extrapolate to get a rough distance from any threat.

It's much more efficient for missile dodging though, less accurate for a HOJ attempt.

[dooom]

The distance will always be consistent, so yes, you can guess/measure range.

 

thanks GG - so what would be the distance from center to outer rim on the TEWS then?

[Crescendo]

It's signal strength, so asking for the "distance" in miles from the center to outer rim is nonsensical. That is to say, you shouldn't think of the RWR as a circle of 100NM radius (or whatever) with your ownship in the middle. That's my understanding of an RWR anyway, those more knowledgeable can correct me.

 

If you want to figure out the distances in miles between yourself and an airborne radar or a SAM using the RWR, you need to divide the RWR scope into as many imaginary inner circles as you think is necessary, and then fly an editor scenario against those threats. When the symbol of the threat in question is 'inside' one of your imaginary threat rings, pause the sim and measure the distance between yourself and the threat. Do this for as many threats as you want, and you now know roughly how far away that Su-27 or SA-15 is based on its position on the RWR.

 

You can use imaginary threat rings, comparisons to the static clock position markers, whatever. Come up with a repeatable system that works for you and test it.

[falcon_120]

In other words, the edge of the TEWS represents the maximum range at which you'll detect a given emitter. In some cases that will be 350mn for example, and in other cases when the output power emission of the enemy radar is smaller that might be just 80 mn.

 

Think of it like hearing, if someone is screaming you'll hear him much farther away that someone who is whispering :) , but you won't know his exact range.

 

Thoug in the context of this SIM, as every emitter does not ever change his output emision power, you can get to know at what distance a particular target is by practice, this is, the su 27 at the inner ring is 65 mn but the mig23 at the inner ring is just 40 mn (I've made up those numbers btw).

[Vekkinho]

I have decided to learn the f15 after flying russian for many years.

 

i have a question about the TEWS. what is the scale when looking at the display in miles? On the SPO i can ascertain bandit distance by the lighting - i am having trouble deciphering how far away the airborne contacts are in the f15 when they pop up on my TEWS.

 

any advice? It would be handy in assisting my HOJ attempts.

 

You can but you shouldn't. Don't mistake signal strenght LEDs as a range to threat meter with SPO. For instance, MiG-31 at 100km will appear more imminent than MiG-29 at 20km..It probably is but I'd rather take care of that MiG-29 first...

Edited January 3, 2014 by Vekkinho

[Kozmyk]

TEWS "U" Symbol

 

I've been seeing "U" symbols for contacts on the TEWS .

What does this stand for?

Can't find it in the manual.

 

I could see it standing for "Unidentified", logically, but it'd be nice to confirm that. ;)

Edited July 8, 2015 by Kozmyk

[Exorcet]

They are unidentified radars, yes. Though at the moment this only means MiG-21 and EWR's.

[Frostie]

Unknown, in DCS this could be MIG-21, F-86 or Predator.

[pr1malr8ge]

Umm, from what I understand is that the f15s rwr is as other have mentioned is a measure of signal strength and highest probable threat.

 

There for as I would understand, that if say you're head on with a bandit at the same altitude and another bandit is closer and at a different altitude but cornering away [i.e. his radar is only scanning you on its outer gimbles] that spike of the closer bandit would show up behind the further bandits spike due to signal strength and threat coloration. Thus making it impossible to correlate any distance via the RWR.

 

I might be wrong but that would be my take.

[SinusoidDelta]

Think of the RWR as a radar detector like the ones we use to save us from speeding tickets. :)

[Kozmyk]

(couldn't find actual circles in paint :D)

 

Those go for SU 27 and F15 , mig has weaker radar so he'll be closer to you

 

GIMP ftw :smilewink:

[104th_Maverick]

Those go for SU 27 and F15 , mig has weaker radar so he'll be closer to you

 

 

Some people will argue with this however what Hadouken has posted in that image is pretty much bang on what you should be deducing from your TEWS regarding approximate range!

 

Nice job!

[Grigs]

Notice how useful these dots can be ;)