Who's the idiot - me or the AI?

[Maurs]

Getting into DCS world, I quickly learned that some things that at first seemed like crazy bugs or AI glitches were actually just my lack of understanding (e.g.: early on, flying KA-50, trying to figure out why when I'd just be flying along straight and easy and all of a sudden my helicopter would just inexplicably plummet out of the air led to me trying to figure out the bug, which lead me to watching the track, which led me to discover that my KA-50's rotors were strangely short whilst I was plummeting, which lead me to discover what that beeping "MAX IAS" doohickey meant and what rotor clashing was...)

 

So anyway, before I pin this one on idiot wingman AI, I just wanted to upload this track and make sure that I wasn't doing something completely stupid on my landing here. This is the SMERCH hunt mission, which went just fine and dandy until right as I was flaring at the end of the runway my plane fell apart and a spiraled into the dirt. DCS accused me of fratricide and NTSC investigators (me watching the track) determined that the cause of the unplanned aerial disassembly was my wingman deciding he had the right of way on that landing...

 

Edit: Oops, wrong track file. And sorry my anecdote was confusing - this was a A10C landing, not KA-50. I was just reminiscing on my entry into DCS in general.

 

Edit2: Oops, can't upload the right track file anyway because it's 14.5MB... dang. I guess at the end of the day I am in fact the idiot.

 

Edit3: Ok, if anyone is still willing to look, I put the file on dropbox: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37638517/wtf%20landing%20fratricide.trk

Edited January 8, 2014 by Maurs

[Maverick-X]

I'm not able to watch trk files atm, but clipping rotorblades is possible at high speeds: The lower rotor turns counterclockwise, therefore the right side experiences a higher velocity while in forward movement. The resulting lift lets the forward moving blade bend up, leading to crossing the upper blade area if sudden/hard steering actions are made.

 

In short: only very light manouvers at high airspeeds!

 

 

The problem with AI landing seems to be a stop in collision avoidance. I tend to let the AI land first, as long as I don't know which pad is the AI's destination.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Unable to watch the track (at work).

But, from your description:

 

You said you were on final, flaring for the landing. When slowing down, the transition from forward speed to the hover, you must keep a very close eye on your VVI.

What I think happened is you encountered another helo fenomenon: the Vortex Ring State.

 

Basically, if you go downward at a fast rate, but with a slow horizontal speed, you find yourself in a turbulent piece of air (you are travelling INTO the air you just pushed down, i.e. very turbulent). No effective lift.

Fix: get horitontal speed! Get in clean air!

Prevention: watch your VVI very closely! (max -3 m/s (from memory) is a safe number).

 

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_ring_state

[SNAFU]

You should point out, that you are referring to the A-10C AI landing, so no VRS stall here involved, just AI...

 

Since I can´t watch the track, I cannot give you a hint other than to clarify the situation, before you receive further response of people like me, who couldn´t watch your track file... :)

[AlphaOneSix]

Well, he kind of did point it out...

 

ED Forums » English » Digital Combat Simulator » DCS: A-10C Warthog »

 

This is the SMERCH hunt mission

 

So he did post in the A-10C forum about something that happened in an A-10C mission. I think it's pretty clear by reading the post he's talking about the A-10C and not the Ka-50.

 

Unfortunately, I did watch the track, and it's not the Smerch hunt mission, it's a track for "The Other Side" Ka-50 mission.

[Maurs]

Unfortunately, I did watch the track, and it's not the Smerch hunt mission, it's a track for "The Other Side" Ka-50 mission.

 

Oops, uh, yeah, that wasn't the right track file. I've put it on dropbox because it's too big for the forums: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37638517/wtf%20landing%20fratricide.trk

 

Thanks for taking the time to look. And yeah, I guess that was confusing that I was rambling about BS2, I was just using that as an example of my difficulties with the ol' learning curve.

[Wolf Rider]

AI usually insists they have right of way and too bad if its you in their way :)

[Yurgon]

Didn't watch the track, but generally speaking the assumption "AI is the idiot" would be correct. :D

 

ATC is rudimentary at best, as are ATC comms. You won't hear your AI wingman calling for take-off or taxi or landing clearance even if you're on the correct frequency. They're lunatics thinking the airspace is reserved for AI units that seem to have a telepathic understanding of how to avoid each other (unless they don't, which also happens from time to time...).

 

Once they're RTBing, AI units seem to ignore players altogether. In essence, I believe you did nothing wrong, it's simply one of those "wrong time, wrong place" things that can only be avoided if you follow all AI units until they've landed so that you're (f)actually clear to land. :)

 

The good thing is that I've only had two or the near misses with AI units while landing. In my experience, this doesn't happen too often (but maybe that's just because my ladings don't usually comply with any standards or procedures that others would/should follow :D).