IPv6

[BitMaster]

Hey All,

 

I just got disconnected from ENO's Stress Test Session and blamed the beta for the crash. I soon realized my (ISP mandatory) router was being flashed with a new setup... so far so good.

 

When I logged into my router I saw that i now have an IPv4 (as usual) as well as an IPv6 address.

 

To be honest, actually this IPv6 belongs to my job but I never thought I would live long enough to see that change happening, but heck.. IT IS HERE NOW :)

 

Are there any issues known with DCS once IPv4 is unavailable in the near future ?

 

The first thing I noticed is that my DCS Server is listed with "DCS World Server ..." in my LAN list instead of it's actual IPv4 DNS name, so i guess services are now handled like real hardware endpoints aka machines...

 

Any info regarding DCS and IPv6 compatibility ?

 

Bit

[BitMaster]

addendum:

 

I disabled IPv4 and went surfing...80% of the websites in my bookmarks won't build up, including this site :(

 

the other 20% of the websites just work as normal, maybe a bit slower, but that might just be my personal feeling ( or the IPv6<->IPv4 tunneling process ).

 

Also I wasnt able to connect MP without changing any settings other than disabling IPv4 for the PC.

 

Bit

 

...the only benefit I can read so far from IPv6 other than the huge amount of IP addresses are reduced latency since routers have less workload to process packets.... so we might get better ping times in the long run :) THIS IS GOOD

Edited January 10, 2014 by BitMaster

[will-]

How can you tell, if you don't mind me asking? wondering how can I do this as well.

[ShuRugal]

IPv6 rollout has been obscenely slow. the protocol has been defined for 16 freaking years now, and major operating systems have supported it for almost that entire time. Virtually all networking hardware manufactured in the last ten years has IPv6 support, so why the hell can't it seem to be used anywhere? Most ISPs still refuse to offer IPv6 support, and those who do have only begun to do so in the last year or two.

 

Meanwhile, IPv4 address space has been exhausted for 3 years, and buggy NAT translation solutions have been fuddled around with for most of a decade trying to compensate....

[BitMaster]

IPv6 rollout has been obscenely slow. the protocol has been defined for 16 freaking years now, and major operating systems have supported it for almost that entire time. Virtually all networking hardware manufactured in the last ten years has IPv6 support, so why the hell can't it seem to be used anywhere? Most ISPs still refuse to offer IPv6 support, and those who do have only begun to do so in the last year or two.

 

Meanwhile, IPv4 address space has been exhausted for 3 years, and buggy NAT translation solutions have been fuddled around with for most of a decade trying to compensate....

 

 

Hey ShuRugal,

 

it is very frustrating to convert a network to IPv6 since most of the routes

being used for every day traffic do NOT support IPv6 today. The only websites I managed to open and load for my daily business are T-Online, Youtube, Apple and Facebook ( I hate FB but the kids and wife wont listen to stop using it ! ). All other sites I use on a daily business are OFFLINE.

Mind you, most of them are IT-related sites for admins -- A PLANE SHAME FOR THEIR ADMINS ! Macworld, Macwelt, tecchannel..etc... all OFF.

 

EVEN THE SITE OF MY ISP WHO ENABLED IT IS UNAVAILABLE WITH IPv6

--- doesnt that speak for itself how it is treated as a hated stepchild ? ---

 

My living room network switch Netgear 1008D Gigabit wont route anything on IPv6, only WLAN directly to my AVM Fritz!Box allows me to somehow test IPv6.

 

This is very frustrating, I can see many problems ahead, for myself and many others.

 

I also tried again with a valid connection to hook up to MP with v6, no luck !

 

Next week I am gonna hook up my gateprotect GPA-400 for internal use and use this Layer-3 UTM-Router to at least have a working router. It forces me to define each and every port & protocol being used etc... based on BLOCK ALL but ALLOWED.... nothing a non network admin could do, not considering the price of such a device... how in the world will they role this out this way ?

 

It's a shame for all involved.

 

 

Bit

[BitMaster]

How can you tell, if you don't mind me asking? wondering how can I do this as well.

 

Will,

 

you can test IPv6 internally between 2 PCs very easily IF your switch supports it. Granted it does it is done by DISABLING IPv4 in your network settings.

If you can still open your network shares, print on LAN printers etc. then it works INTERNALY.

 

To test IPv6 externaly the "NATURAL" way without using workarounds that I dont wanna get into now, your ISP needs to natively have IPv6 enabled and grant you an IPv6 address that you should be able to read out in your routers log.

 

IPv6 addresses are alot more complex in appearance and internally, your PC will be given numerous v6 adresses with different local parts at the end.

Anything beyond this I havent tested myself, i.e. make services available from the public. As long as others cant really test it it doesnt make sense to set it up.

 

Mind you, Windows Server 2008 R2 and later do rely on IPv6 in Active Directory Management. Turn it off and your trouble begins, aka 2 DC talking among each other etc... Turn it back on and your problems are gone again.

But this is configured automatically and doesnt actually need any expertise on how to set it up etc... It gets complicated if you switch to IPv6 and switch off IPv4, you will be alone on your Island asking how lazy the world around you has become not putting any effort in this issue.

 

Bit

Edited January 10, 2014 by BitMaster

[sobek]

http://test-ipv6.com/

[BitMaster]

http://test-ipv6.com/

 

 

Thanks sobek,

 

done the test, got 10 of 10 points, despite 90+% of the websites I usually visit are not reachable.

 

I am rewiring my DCS-server now so it is directly attached to the Fritz!Box router. Given that I can test to join a local server on IPv6 only on all ends, IPv4 turned OFF.

 

I bet you could tell me up front if this has a chance to work but I wanna try myself and state the outcome here in this thread...

 

Bit

[BitMaster]

Forgot that DCS needs to log on to the MP Master Server .... can't test that at all BUMMER

 

Bit

[sobek]

You'd have to ask c0ff about the specifics, but until ipv6 really takes off, they are going to have a hard time to justify putting ressources into supporting it. Keep in mind that ED is a *very* small studio.

[sobek]

I am rewiring my DCS-server now so it is directly attached to the Fritz!Box router. Given that I can test to join a local server on IPv6 only on all ends, IPv4 turned OFF.

 

I must admit i haven't tested it myself but how is AVM regarding IPv6 support? Have they jumped the train early on?

 

 

It gets complicated if you switch to IPv6 and switch off IPv4, you will be alone on your Island asking how lazy the world around you has become not putting any effort in this issue.

 

Well, ISPs, at least in Austria, live inside a very price war driven market. I am too unfamiliar with network HW and SW to really be sure but i guess going into parallel mode means a significant one time investment that will not result in additional income. The switch will have to be driven by pressure from customers. Well, it goes without saying that 90+% of private customers don't even know what IPv6 is, so they don't care. Which means it will be business customers driving the change. Those in terms are also facing significant investments if their existing hardware is old, so naturally they will postpone this as long as they can.

[Gloom Demon]

That is strange - I also got disconnected from the Stress Test server yesterday, although it was the same mission I flew a couple of days ago for 3 hours on another server without a glitch. Could be something wrong with the server...

[BitMaster]

I must admit i haven't tested it myself but how is AVM regarding IPv6 support? Have they jumped the train early on?

 

 

Hey sobek,

 

AVM supports IPv6 on most newer Fritz!Box's, one that does not support it for example is the 7270v1, whereas the 7270v2 ( which has far higher production numbers and a faster CPU and some more benefits ) does fully support IPv6.

 

 

I can work internaly 100% on IPv6 meanwhile if I skip my &%$§% !! Dlink 8-port Gigabit switch. As long as all devices are connected to the Fritz!Box 6360cable ( Kabel Deutschland aka Vodafone meanwhile ) either via the 4 Gigabit switch ports or via WLAN. File shares etc. work across all OS, Mac OS X Mavericks, Ubuntu 13.x Desktop & Server as well as my Win7-64 Ult that I use for gaming only ( and 1 special app I need for gateprotect UTM Firewall Appliances until they move to a web based GUI with the next version ).

 

The next 2-3 years will definitly cause MAJOR headaches among my customers using home-style devices aka switches. All those need to be exchanged, port-forwardings must be reconfigured, intrusion detection needs to be re-checked, certificates need to be redone to fulfil compliancy,

VPN needs to be redone (IPSec is now part of the IPv6 protocol ).

 

This is more than just peanuts..this will produce costs in the mid- to high range.

 

I am happy that some of m customers need to fulfil compliances and need to address this, no matter what the cost is. So I will get my fair part of those headaches...and bills I can write HAHA.

 

Bit

[BitMaster]

That is strange - I also got disconnected from the Stress Test server yesterday, although it was the same mission I flew a couple of days ago for 3 hours on another server without a glitch. Could be something wrong with the server...

 

 

I was on Eno's server again last night my time with the "1024" setting and had no issues but I have to admot we were only 2-4 players during that time.

 

I disconnected 2 hours in the mission cause I got sleepy... not a crash other than in my head :)

 

If you are with KabeDeutschland/Vodafone you can check your router's cpanel/GUI if you also got an IPv6 Address assigned. If that is the case you might got disconnected while your ISP reflashed your router.

 

Usually ISP's dont flash all of their x-Million customers in 1 go, the servers would not take that load. They do a certain quantum per session, going on for a few days/weeks to see how it "behaves" in the real world.

 

 

Bit

 

Bit

[sobek]

I can work internaly 100% on IPv6 meanwhile if I skip my &%$§% !! Dlink 8-port Gigabit switch.

 

It seems my 3com 5port gigabit switch doesn't support IPv6 either. Despicable, since it's only 3 years old. :( Or maybe since my FritzBox 7113 is the DHCP, it doesn't dish out IPv6 adresses.

Edited January 11, 2014 by sobek

[Bucic]

IPv6 rollout has been obscenely slow. the protocol has been defined for 16 freaking years now, and major operating systems have supported it for almost that entire time. Virtually all networking hardware manufactured in the last ten years has IPv6 support, so why the hell can't it seem to be used anywhere? Most ISPs still refuse to offer IPv6 support, and those who do have only begun to do so in the last year or two.

 

Meanwhile, IPv4 address space has been exhausted for 3 years, and buggy NAT translation solutions have been fuddled around with for most of a decade trying to compensate....

And I thought it was only the case in the internet third world I live in :noexpression:

[BitMaster]

Here are screenshots takenfrom the Fritz!Box 6360-cable Firmware 5.56 Fritz-OS, modified by Kabel Deutschland ( mainly for VoIP settings and blocking user initiated firmware updates, other settings are stock afaict.

 

 

The double NATed settings work inside your own LAN but I havent had a chance to set up my UTM Firewall yet which fully supports IPv6 by default.

In short, I did not test if the IPv6 address gets parsed through.

By default, using that term NAT with IPv6 is obsolete since NAT is no more.

Maybe this short definition willhelp you understand what I mean:

 

WWW<-->1.Router(maybe ISP mandatory)<-->2.Router(UTM-Appliance)<-->LAN

 

In order to have the IPv6 settings handed through to the 2.Router you need the double NATed settings as far as I understand the Fritz's explanation.

 

No guarantee on all this.

 

I have not found a way to open the fritz's website on IPv6, I can only pull it up if IPv4 is also enabled.

 

PLEASE, do not try messing with this if you are not somehow IP educated cause you could possibly lock yourself off your network and get lost.

 

!!!THIS IS ONLY FOR PEOPLE KNOWING WHAT THEY DO AND CAN HELP THEMSELVES OUT OF ANY PITFALL THAT MAY BECOME PRESENT !!!

 

**The unkooked option in PNG #2 is only neccassary IF your Fritz is the 2nd router, not if it is your 1st router on the front facing the public net.**

 

Bit

Edited January 11, 2014 by BitMaster

[ZaltysZ]

IPv6 rollout has been obscenely slow. the protocol has been defined for 16 freaking years now, and major operating systems have supported it for almost that entire time. Virtually all networking hardware manufactured in the last ten years has IPv6 support, so why the hell can't it seem to be used anywhere? Most ISPs still refuse to offer IPv6 support, and those who do have only begun to do so in the last year or two.

 

Meanwhile, IPv4 address space has been exhausted for 3 years, and buggy NAT translation solutions have been fuddled around with for most of a decade trying to compensate....

 

The thing with IPv4 address space is a bit tricky. IPv4 addresses are allocated in blocks by regional registries, then given to local registries by blocks too and so on. When they say, all address space is almost exhausted, it does not mean that almost all IPs are allocated to some hosts, it only means that almost all blocks are allocated from the point of view of top level registries. Situation might be different at lower levels. Some countries, ISPs like to hoard IPs (i.e. they request way larger blocks than they need or have done that in the past). There is no 100% working mechanism for reclamation of such unused IPs, but it is still done in some ways (i.e. some companies approach others with offers to buy their IP ranges and so on).

 

I would say if having IPv4 internet routable address isn't still too pricey for ordinary home user, then real exhaustion hasn't happened yet. :)

[ZaltysZ]

And I thought it was only the case in the internet third world I live in :noexpression:

 

Oh, dear neighbor, is that really that bad there? :)

[ShuRugal]

it is very frustrating to convert a network to IPv6 since most of the routes

being used for every day traffic do NOT support IPv6 today. The only websites I managed to open and load for my daily business are T-Online, Youtube, Apple and Facebook ( I hate FB but the kids and wife wont listen to stop using it ! ). All other sites I use on a daily business are OFFLINE.

Mind you, most of them are IT-related sites for admins -- A PLANE SHAME FOR THEIR ADMINS ! Macworld, Macwelt, tecchannel..etc... all OFF.

 

EVEN THE SITE OF MY ISP WHO ENABLED IT IS UNAVAILABLE WITH IPv6

--- doesnt that speak for itself how it is treated as a hated stepchild ? ---

 

 

done the test, got 10 of 10 points, despite 90+% of the websites I usually visit are not reachable.

 

You'd have to ask c0ff about the specifics, but until ipv6 really takes off, they are going to have a hard time to justify putting ressources into supporting it. Keep in mind that ED is a *very* small studio.

 

These are all different faces of the same problem: No one wants to put resources into adopting IPv6 until everyone else has done it first. The ISPs won't do it until websites start offering it; websites wont start doing it until their hosting centers upgrade to support it; Hosting centers wont offer it until the ISPs servicing them offer it...

 

It's a catch 22: everyone is willing to switch to IPv6, just as long as they get to be the last one to do it.

 

I had a boss once who used to let the same underlying reasoning get him in trouble. "If what i have still works -now-, why should i bother switching?" I remember one instance where our fork-truck went three months with a leaking master cylinder... He did finally replace it, after the brakes failed and he punched a hole in a pallet full of spectrometers... In the end he had to buy the master cylinder anyway, lost a couple spectrometers that were each worth a couple hundred bucks, and was unable to use the forklift for a week while the new cylinder was being sourced and shipped.

 

The answer to the question "why should i upgrade now when what i have works" is "so that tomorrow, when your leaking cylinder becomes a broken cylinder, you can still use the truck"

 

And I thought it was only the case in the internet third world I live in :noexpression:

 

nope. the great ol' US of A is the worst offender here. We have a disproportionately large share of the IPv4 address space, so we don't "need" to make the switch yet. We have leg room. Which we will use to accelerate as much as we can, so that when we do hit the wall, it hurts us all the worse.

[Seil]

As a network engineer, I can assure you, we don't actually NEED IPv6, not since the advent of NAT which basically allows you to run unlimited number of systems behind any given address.

 

I'm not saying that some people / organizations aren't being greedy and wasteful with their IP subscriptions...

 

IPv6 at this point, for a end-user like yourself, just adds more overhead of yet another protocol to the communication line for the "future" of telecommunications.

 

FYI, I disable IPv6 on EVERY device I touch ;)

 

Happy computing!

[Bucic]

Oh, dear neighbor, is that really that bad there? :)

Yup. Especially in university dormitories. The prices outside of cities are also not that great. A decade monopolly took its toll.

 

Re ipv6, I was getting lots of phone calls from an internet s. provider. A certain person seemed to be assigned to stalking me. One time I told him to call me back with an info on when the ISP enables ipv6. I never heard from him again :)

 

As a network engineer, I can assure you, we don't actually NEED IPv6, not since the advent of NAT which basically allows you to run unlimited number of systems behind any given address.

 

I'm not saying that some people / organizations aren't being greedy and wasteful with their IP subscriptions...

 

IPv6 at this point, for a end-user like yourself, just adds more overhead of yet another protocol to the communication line for the "future" of telecommunications.

 

FYI, I disable IPv6 on EVERY device I touch ;)

 

Happy computing!

I've learned about ipv6 the odd way. My system yielded poor networking performance for no apparent reason. It turned out it was due to delays between an ipv6 'call' and the system 'knowing' that my ISP does not support ipv6 (so it [my system] can fall back to ipv4).

 

You say we don't need ipv6 just yet. Sure. But do you think ISPs will be ready when we do? The day the time comes these leeches will tell us 'it's a tremendous amount of effort ahead of us' despite the need for ipv6 have been established a decade prior to the events.

 

But yes, as a rule of thumb you're fine without ipv6 enabled by your ISP (or even disabled system-wide) until some services stop working which won't happen anytime soon. This is basically a gaming forum. In the light of this I can guarantee one doesn't even need to know of IPv6 existence until 2 new PC's into the future :)

 

PS. Disabling ipv6 may fix high latency on some systems. There's even an about:config Firefox tweak for it.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Bucic

[ENO]

Interesting. So the suggestion then is to go in and disable ipv6? Is that strictly router side or are there functions in windows that need to be addressed?

[BitMaster]

Interesting. So the suggestion then is to go in and disable ipv6? Is that strictly router side or are there functions in windows that need to be addressed?

 

 

Eno, you can for now safely disable IPv6 on your client OS.

 

PLEASE, under no circumstances try this in a Windows Server 2008 (R2) and later environment that uses Active Directory. You will run into trouble.

 

 

The topic is not important if you live in the US of A since they pile huge amounts of IPv4 addresses.

 

This topic is VERY present in Far East Asia, Oceania, Pacific region and Afrika. Those HAVE to act cause the amount of mobile devices has outclimbed the amount of available addresses.

 

The NAT solution is suited for managed NAT routers, I wouldnt wanna be NATed as a mobile user behind my ISP's forced NAT router.

 

Services, aka Game SERVERES, VPN Servers, web servers, email servers all need ports, 1 or more of 65535 available. Each port can only be used by 1 IP in the NATed network behind. This is only acceptable for true dummy end users but not for a whole geo-region or half of an ISP's customer.

 

You could forget turing on own DCS Server and expect someone to join, they wouldnt even see you in the Master Browser. That much to NAT is ok and that solves the 2*32 address limit. It plain doesnt. Skype, Facetime, all that NOT POSSIBLE. Only 1 PC in the whole subnet could use that service and thus block all others using that exact same port. Maximum is 65535 different services, if each service uses only 1. Now given 250k users behind... can u see how this creates a problem ?

 

 

The thing is, all wait for others to move first.

 

I am a mover and get my stuff and knowledge ready before it overtakes me.

 

This I can sell, buy a new rig from and have happy customers with servers you can reach whenver you feel like it.

 

Back to relation to DCS. Why is itof importance ?

 

Well, as I said, the Far East has this problem very present, Europe has it too, not at the extend as Asia but it is here, here enough to get Vodafone moving, telekom moving, the big companies in this area in this game.

 

DCS may not have many customers on Oceania and the far Pacific Region but they for sure do in Europe and Asia. SO when it comes to work on the network code and server data-centre decisions, thats when I would bring this ball into the game. Better to look at it early before you are forced to move FAST because some cutomers from some regions have mandatory IPv6 without the dual stack option available. That would be bad !

 

Sure it costs money. No doubt ! All changes need ressources.

 

The Question is, how much are you gonna loose if you react late.

 

I couldnt purchase, activate nor play SP/MP DCS if I was on IPv6. That may give you an idea. I could go to Apple and load a game from their store, that works, also on IPv6. No comment.

 

Bit

[BitMaster]

......

In the light of this I can guarantee one doesn't even need to know of IPv6 existence until 2 new PC's into the future :)

 

PS. Disabling ipv6 may fix high latency on some systems. There's even an about:config Firefox tweak for it.

 

As an end point user, you have no choice or option in any way, you gotta take it the way it is served.

As a service provider, aka server hoster, webshop owner etc.. you do have an option to be ready or not.

As a game provider with network as a fundemantal part of the game's layout, you have the resposibility for your furthcoming.

 

I`d say 2 years for service providers to get ready at max, maybe 2 new PC's for most of us users, 2 years ago for some unlucky folks in Asia behind a NAT suffering many draw backs.

 

I see this in a strategic scope, not as a particular matter, but for sure a topic you cannot turn down anymore when it comes to network investment in any aspect. It should at least be IPv6 ready so that you dont have to buy new ones :( When it comes to code, well, I am no coder, that's up to those folks when they think it is best to worry about it. I can only say, from the publical-technical site, things started moving or I as a Vodafone Germany customer wouldnt have an IPv6 assigned. That is a yellow light on the traffic light. next stage is red.

 

Bit

 

Bit

Edited January 12, 2014 by BitMaster