Kula66 Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 Just finished reading a couple of books on 15s in GW1 and seems to be that SAM launches are very visible. In LO I was just flying on-line and as usual getting shot at by SA-11s and never spotted the launch. Question is: should they be visible from 40k' on a clear day? Max range is about 20miles ...
golfsierra2 Posted February 12, 2006 Posted February 12, 2006 Just finished reading a couple of books on 15s in GW1 and seems to be that SAM launches are very visible. In LO I was just flying on-line and as usual getting shot at by SA-11s and never spotted the launch. Question is: should they be visible from 40k' on a clear day? Max range is about 20miles ... I think, it depends on your setting of the terrain preload (grafix settings). Have you tried it at max available range ? kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
Kula66 Posted February 12, 2006 Author Posted February 12, 2006 The preload stuff would be more than 20miles ... I think more like 50 - and I would think that is just a performance optimisation technique, If something happens like a missile launch I would hope it would just go get the graphic from disk - but I'm just guessing :)
Kula66 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Posted February 20, 2006 Was flying last night on 169th server on a night scenario and again got launch warnings for SA-11s ... rolled inverted and couldn't see any signs of launch ... does anyone else see these launches or is it just not modelled from 20km distance? I would hope to see something given that spotting a SAM launch is critical!
Ironhand Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 The degree of their visibility depends greatly on the settings in the Graphics and Cockpit options. At 32 km I can spot the launch as a quick flash of white followed by a thin rising white plume with Advanced Haze and Cockpit Reflections selected. But I have to be anticipating it or it might take me awhile to spot it--the "it" in this case being the rising plume, since I've already missed the flash. With haze set to Basic, I have no problem whatsoever spotting it at that range. In either case, having cockpit reflections turned on adds another layer drawn over it that reduces visibility a little. So in the end, your haze setting has the most effect on SAM visibility. With haze set to Advanced, there is no such thing as a clear day. There's a lot of murkiness even with visibility set to max range. Rich YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 11 Pro x64, Asrock Z790 Steel Legend MoBo, Intel i7-13700K, MSI RKT 4070 Super 12GB, Corsair Dominator DDR5 RAM 32GB.
Prophet_169th Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 There would be an enormous smoke/dust cloud IRL. I would think much more than what LOMAC has now.
Kula66 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Posted February 20, 2006 Cheers guys, so it should be bigger ... but I need to look harder! I seemed to get loads of warnings on the RWR - flashing 11 symbol, which I assume was a launch and never spotted any!
Ironhand Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Cheers guys, so it should be bigger ... but I need to look harder! I seemed to get loads of warnings on the RWR - flashing 11 symbol, which I assume was a launch and never spotted any! Don't know if it should be bigger or not. How big is big? When I see it from 32 km (about 20 miles) with basic haze, it's very noticeable just as it is. Part of the problem, of course, is that we're looking at pixels on 20" or so monitors. Rich YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 11 Pro x64, Asrock Z790 Steel Legend MoBo, Intel i7-13700K, MSI RKT 4070 Super 12GB, Corsair Dominator DDR5 RAM 32GB.
Force_Feedback Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 One question, is a sam is radio command guided (no illumination of target required, just the soloution from the tracking radar), will the RWR give a launch warning (I think it shouldn't, but that's a guess)? This all with a missile without a seeker, only a radio command datalink. Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
GGTharos Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Why not? There's a tracking waveform plus a datalink channel to be detected. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ED Team Wags Posted February 20, 2006 ED Team Posted February 20, 2006 There would be an enormous smoke/dust cloud IRL. I would think much more than what LOMAC has now. Not necessarily. A SAM crew worth its salt will wet down the ground around the launcher to avoid such a "here I cam, come kill me" visual signature. That's why you'll often see a water truck attached to a SAM unit. -Matt Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wagmatt Twitch: wagmatt System: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3729544#post3729544
nscode Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Why not? There's a tracking waveform plus a datalink channel to be detected. Which is nice, since you just need to send out datalinks and your enemy's panties will constantly be moistured :) Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.
GGTharos Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Nope ... you need the tracking radar -and- the datalink. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Kula66 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Posted February 20, 2006 Not necessarily. A SAM crew worth its salt will wet down the ground around the launcher to avoid such a "here I cam, come kill me" visual signature. That's why you'll often see a water truck attached to a SAM unit. -Matt But does that create clouds of steam? As I mentioned, the book I was reading was implying that they were very visible from F-15E at 30k' ... despite flying up sidedown and looking down the bearing of the launch I never spotted them ... day or night.
nscode Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Nope ... you need the tracking radar -and- the datalink. Ooo.. that's even easier to smudge up :) Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.
159_Archer Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Here is a link to a good site with videos of a number of Russian SAM and other units. Gives an idea on what you would see on a launch IRL. http://www.aviation.ru/www.rusarm.ru/video/ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 159th Guards Aviation Regiment; recruiting now! http://www.159thgar.com/ We now fly all modern Jets and Helos
Ironhand Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Here is a link to a good site with videos of a number of Russian SAM and other units. Gives an idea on what you would see on a launch IRL. Interesting link. Thanks for sharing. Watched the Buk, Tor, and Tunguska videos. Surprisingly less than what I'd expect. The Tor, especially, doesn't give you much. And the Buk, from a distance, wouldn't be all that visible either until you had the long launch plume to look for. Rich YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 11 Pro x64, Asrock Z790 Steel Legend MoBo, Intel i7-13700K, MSI RKT 4070 Super 12GB, Corsair Dominator DDR5 RAM 32GB.
Kula66 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Posted February 20, 2006 I'm going to record a few tracks and play them back ... only time I see a SAM is a flash outside the cockpit! Usually followed by a screen showing a map!
Pilotasso Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Even more than the missile trail is the shadow cast on the ground by it. Also when the missile is lauched initialy it is static so the fumes expelled by the exaust are concentrated near the ground as it takes off. You can put as much water on the sand you cant prevent this. .
ED Team Wags Posted February 20, 2006 ED Team Posted February 20, 2006 But does that create clouds of steam? As I mentioned, the book I was reading was implying that they were very visible from F-15E at 30k' ... despite flying up sidedown and looking down the bearing of the launch I never spotted them ... day or night. Not really. Picking up a launch depends on many factors including weather, time of day, environment (desert, jungle, temperate), SAM system, level of site preparation, sun angle, etc. -Matt Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wagmatt Twitch: wagmatt System: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3729544#post3729544
Kula66 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Posted February 20, 2006 Agreed Matt, but at night, from 40k' an SA-11 (from say 20miles) ... we've all seen video of night SAM launches (granted not from 40k') and they are spectacular! It just struck me as odd that these 15E drivers described them as easy to spot from a long way off ... and I've never noticed them - despite looking
Ironhand Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 ...Also when the missile is lauched initialy it is static so the fumes expelled by the exaust are concentrated near the ground as it takes off. You can put as much water on the sand you cant prevent this. Depends on the missile, I suppose. The Tor, for instance, pops out of it's container and angles over in the direction it's going to head before the rocket even ignites. So the blast is almost parallel to the ground and well above it. But, if you watch those videos, even the Buk doesn't initially put out all that much and it disipates very quickly. In fact, I'm wondering if FC actually overmodels the effects. Rich YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 11 Pro x64, Asrock Z790 Steel Legend MoBo, Intel i7-13700K, MSI RKT 4070 Super 12GB, Corsair Dominator DDR5 RAM 32GB.
Kula66 Posted February 20, 2006 Author Posted February 20, 2006 Rich, Looking at the S-300V video ... the thing makes a HUGE column of smoke as it climbs away ... and this persists ... this isn't modelled. And you can also see on the BUK video a white trail as it climbs ... I've never seen this.
warthogmadman987 Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 havent finished reading all the posts, but the movie clips i have of the sa11 launcher shows a load more dust clouds than in lockon, by far. dont know how you could miss it! opps-kula just before me stated it!
Pilotasso Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Depends on the missile, I suppose. The Tor, for instance, pops out of it's container and angles over in the direction it's going to head before the rocket even ignites. So the blast is almost parallel to the ground and well above it. But, if you watch those videos, even the Buk doesn't initially put out all that much and it disipates very quickly. In fact, I'm wondering if FC actually overmodels the effects. Rich tue, its a smarter way to provent it but not completely since the missile is still slow. proximity to the gorund just makes it worse on the other SAM's .
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