Conure

Yeah I know I typed a lot, and to be honest I'm not really that bothered as I have a fair few other things to be doing - I just really enjoy debate, though I think it can come across as confrontational, quite easily. I think I should probably explain to people that rather than just whinging, I'm just provoking a bit of discussion, though often subtleties etc can be lost in translation because of the way we are limited to text! (Here I go again...) I think most of my argument existed outside of my initial issue, and I often find the unflinching support of ED a little odd. All in good fun :)

Sounds to me like you've got a disco house. MOMMY WAS RIGHT!

First of all, I understand entirely the "moderator/user" relationship, and hope this debate does not end up in some form of banning or censorship. I believe that at the moment this is merely a disagreement as opposed to a contractual infringement though if I'm wrong please let me know. That said, patronising winks at the end of posts are not really required, or do you disagree? I am unsure of whether or not you interpreted my post correctly. I was explaining why it's easy to feel a particular way and tried to explain the mentality behind it, as opposed to defending my own position. I am feeling that you've misinterpreted an explanatory thread. Also, I think I explained quite adequately that whilst I am aware of EULA, it often conflicts with the more emotive aspects of a purchase. Again, I did not defend myself, instead merely attempted to go some way toward explaining my feelings. I would suggest that, all respect intended, you read my posts more carefully - I think a closer read would yield a greater understanding of my intentions. My post was not (I believe) antagonistic. I try (both on forums and in life) to explain my views with fair respect to all involved. As for the "respect is earned" comment, we deserve respect for two reasons. Firstly, because the majority of us are of above average intelligence, which I believe is something the subject matter implies. Secondly, we are the final few who have not migrated to Call of Duty and World of Warcraft, and so produce another stream of revenue for ED. This, I believe, means we should be given respect. I also believe this entire discussion really does boil down to one point: "Do ED give good customer service?" I think there is only one answer... "What customer service?" Of course, if you want to disagree and argue that they would give good customer service if they weren't fixing bugs, I would ask, why are they so busy fixing bugs upon final release? I will admit that I made a mistake regarding activations and should've read more closely, yet I also maintain that ED are a farce with regards to customer service and showing care for their client base. All we have to do is look at other specialist hobby business' (RCSIMS, firstlightoptics etc), to see that customer service and showing you care for your client base can help you survive and thrive in a highly competitive market. ED are not in a highly competitive market, and as such they couldn't care less about appeasing their civilian market. When I have had issues with Rise of Flight, I've had developer responses within 24 hours; this I would presume is because they don't have an alternative market which brings in extra revenue, i.e their military contracts. Defend your point that I was a fool with regards to activations, and I'll freely admit I was. But please don't blindly defend their business model on the civilian side of things. They're a great company in some ways, no doubt. They provide us with beautiful simulations with depth beyond compare, however it is extremely rare to find somebody on these forums that will legitimately critique EDs shortcomings. This is a shame, I believe, because without productive criticism how can we expect improvement?

Awesome, about to give it a go now! Lets see if my rig is up to the job...

Is this referring to me? I hope not, as I have done no kicking in doors or any such thing! I simply asked a question and said ED have quite bad customer support, which I stand by! Whether or not they have a valid reason for that (No business does, in my opinion), is besides the point! No offense meant to you at all Viper, just don't like to be painted as a bad guy. I think the underlying motive behind many peoples anger is that when one buys a game, they feel they have the rights to do with it what they like. If somebody derives pleasure from continuously changing components, formatting and such (as it appears I do!) then they feel entirely entitled to do so. Whatever the small print, large print, warnings etc say, we are still stuck with the psychology of "I paid for it, it's mine" and it's quite hard for me to make the transition from the "I own it" to "ED own it and I will do as they say" mentality. I think when we all begin to adjust to the world in which we don't own the software (or indeed a copy of the disk!), perhaps these issues won't inflame so much. There is a great discrepency between what people expect/want and are used to, and what really is...It is my honest opinion though, that ED don't particularly respect their civilian consumers. I do not speak about moderators - the mods have always helped me and I have utmost respect for them, but with regard to the way we're treated (eg lack of response, it's done when it's done, activation issues, suddenly releasing whilst we all wait well over a month for the next beta) it does make one wish for a little more of a "the customer is always right" mentality. I think perhaps my own ideas of business are at odds with the ED model. This mentality of "you're lucky to be getting it in a month" seems to be a huge deference to a software protection method that can't possibly benefit anybody, purely out of respect of everything ED choose to do. We are a very niche community, and we deserve respect...Not to be treated as pirates. I have invested a good deal of money into ED and flight simulation, and have to say that to an extent I feel let down by the lack of their response or care toward customer issues. This is all just opinion, I state nothing as fact so please, no more insults/personal attacks etc etc!

You pissed on my damn Mig mannnn....

Yeah sorry, was kind've a follow on from my previous thread which was quite ranty! It is an activation issue, yeah. (500 posts and I am one of the biggest noobs here :D)

Yeah, I wasn't trying to kill it off! It just seemed the forum had been turned into a kind've message update...Thing..

How is it!?!? Am downloading now...1mb/s and its taking ages!! Can't wait :D

Cheers guys

Hey, The FC2 forum appears to be dead? It only has stickies in it? anyway, I bought it yesterday but cant find the manual! I just want a PDF copy, bt it doesnt seem to be on the download page or in the download section here? Can somebody enlighten me? Sorry for putting it here, but as I said, FC2 forum doesnt appear to be active?? Con

only 1/3?! You paint an optimistic and kind portait of our species!

Thanks Eddie - that's all I needed to hear :-) Cheers

What are you even talking about? The forum can help me get activations back? 497 posts, buying every product they offer and getting others to buy it too, spreading word of how great the product is and being (often) very well behaved on the forums, all I'd ask in return as a loyal and paying customer is for a little support every now and then - That's what the customer business relationship is, isn't it?

It's not unreasonable but it's certainly questionable as to how much importance they place on customer services, considering much larger business' can reply faster. That said, much larger business' have more money to spend on these departments, and we're far from EDs most important clients. Still, I do miss the days just being able to phone somebody for some help, rather than relying on email which they may or may not have picked up! Surely they don't have a four day backlog of emails, though surely also after the release of a new game they have a team focused purely on customer support? I guess I can't expect too much of such a niche company, but just some acknowledgement would be nice. I updated yesterday asking if I could get a time frame...No reply. Great sims, terrible customer service :P

Hi guys, Have had a ticket with them 4 days now with no reply - Do you know if there is a telephone number to call them on? Cheers

Yeah I tried it for like 45 mins, no luck...CTD every single time...Tried a few of the fixes but no luck...Have bought lock on instead, it was cheap and will pass some time I'm sure...Does this mean I can go online and shoot at KA50s? (I mean flaming cliffs 2)

ugh, I did it...Damn you ED...

Thank you for the reply! Hmm...It's either this or lock on..I am severely craving fixed wing action! A bit worried lock on is so unrealistic it's barely fun, though...

Hey all, Have been looking into alternative sims whilst I wait on my A10c to get more activations. Checking out free falcon atm...How is it? Is it detailed like DCS? Is it worth a try, even for a few days?

I think the only lesson learned here has been that miscommunication can easily ensue, when you lack the full range of communicative capacities that we use in face to face speech. If you'd have received my statement as intended it would've come less as trying to put words in your mouth, but as an attempt to extract your meaning and debate it. Though if we'd have been speaking face to face then I expect I would have received your statement differently and the conversation may well have taken an entirely different direction. Still, I see no need for you to refer to me as impulsive absent any evidence or even a clue as to my situation. Pointless judgement does not become you.

You are very being hostile, please stop trying to find acts of hostility that don't exist. We only have a few sims left, and it is not a great exaggeration to say that flight simulation is at a crossroad. Whether it's at a point of return (as seen with RoF, A10, the new iL game) or whether it's going to disappear (as copy protection may get inhibitive and complex to the point that it's not longer profitable to make the games) only time will tell....

You think? We used to have Janes, 4.0, IL, Flanker, F16 sims all over the place, loads of chopper sims, flight unlimited... I think if you think the simulator market is as healthy as it was 10 years ago you're definitely wrong. Even FS has been discontinued, that was always the flagship (though granted, not the best) of flight simulation. If it continues I'm going to have to buy a real jet to get my fix :D

True. It's a real shame people pirate these types of games, they're a dying breed...

Ahh man, it was a painful few months...I'm booting windows...is it gonna work...? No..It's not..Heh... I'm hoping ED will look at my activations and see they all came from the same IP. Anyway, I find it strange that we're not allowed to debate the implications of piracy protection. I'm not talking about outright rant, just implications...Still, if that's their rules then it's their rules.