1MajorKoenig

Ah danke. Also ein neues FC

Sorry if these are stupid questions but I just stumbled across this announcement. How I read it this is supposed to be an easier DCS - however the selection of planes is somewhat surprising if you name the game “Modern”? Shouldn’t be the planes all fit into the same era or at least be viable in it? Maybe I haven’t fully understood what MAC is supposed to be yet... Regardless - I am always happy if devs work on flight sim stuff - rare enough these days

Was ist das?

Holy cow! This looks fantastic!!!

Wait - is ED making a MiG-29??

Ich auch. Leider habe ich das Gefühl, dass wir darauf noch etwas warten müssen. In den letzten drei Jahren scheint da nicht viel vorangegangen zu sein

MiG-23 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One more thing: according to this article here, Angola received the MiG-23-98-2 Upgrade. Which is the one with the Moskit-21K radar and modern A2A missiles such as R-27 and R-77 (?). If that is true it is even more strange that I can’t find any photos of the upgraded cockpit on the internet? I mean if they exchange the radar they would certainly at least do a tiny little bit to the cockpit ergonomics as well no? https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/the-war-where-the-mig-23-demonstrated-its-high-potential-legacy-of-the-soviet-swept-wing-fighter

Yes ok. So if the intention was to add two MFDs - which clock instruments would they keep?

I think even these were still somewhat downgraded. But an MLA or MLD was probably still a reasonable strong and cheap small fighter even in the 1980s.

Looks like an insta-buy to me Looking forward!

That statement surprises me - while I haven’t served in the Soviet armed forces, it always appeared to me that Soviet military thinking was stunningly rigid. Almost to a degree where they put technology above individual thinking and initiative. Considering the size of the area to cover that sounds like a reasonable idea. Mind you that Naval aviation also often is a separate service branch for a very good reason. Although Russia merged the PVO into the Airforce after the Cold War If I’m not mistaken. Certainly you can develop equipment and tactics much more to your needs if you are a separate branch. Hmm... as said I haven’t been part of the group but I read about an encounter between Soviet 23MLDs vs Pakistani F-16 and basically the pilots seem to got very frustrated about the rigid guidance they received instead of the initiative they wanted. I understand that it is also about RoE but this case somewhat shows the overall thinking potentially. And that is exactly my main question. Not so much if the GCI tactics are good or bad - more how exactly it was executed from the pilots’ point of view. And I understood that the exact steps differed from plane to plane. On another old thread I found something about the controls available to the ground control but cannot see he exactly that translates into the pilots’ doing. Hence why I ask I think there are a lot of very knowledgeable people around here - even some with real experience. So I hope to understand the system better

Makes sense Great thank you for this info! So the vector given by the ground control is transmitted to the plane and displayed on HSI and HUD... now do you know by chance if the autopilot on the MiG-23, 29, 25 would pick this up to steer the plane automatically? Or would the pilot fly the plane manually while en-route? And if you fly autopilot, how do you keep formation? And do I read this right that VVS fighters didn’t use Lazur but only PVO did? Ok that is micromanagement... Ahh that would be awesome! I understand that this would require very smart programming but it would fill this sim much needed live!

Thanks for the pic - I like it! And Considering how small the MiG-23/27 is this even makes a lot of sense... The MiG-21-93 got one MFD as well. Do you know by chance what the small display device on the MiG-27 pic is and what it can do? Is it some sort of mini MFD? Btw here is a picture of the 29SMT cockpit - it has two of the large MFDs which may or may not have been used in the 23-98 upgrade program:

It seems bizarre at first, yes. But if you think about it may not be. As others pointed out the Russians were using very strict and almost rigid tactics avoiding individual initiative for the most part. And more importantly: in an interception speed is key. Why not just scramble and guide the interceptors remotely to the target - where the pilot retakes control to fight? Simply vectoring the interceptors via voice commands was already done in WW2 by the Royal Airforce and the Luftwaffe. But that was „just“ via voice. That is why I am curious about how much more the Lazour system was doing? The fight itself can’t be remotely controlled but that wasn’t the question. The question was if the interception up to the point of the engagement was remote controlled or not. And I don’t mean direction via voice. Was that the Common Modus operandi? I mean for a typical interception - would they do the intercept on autopilot until close to the targets? And would the autopilot waypoints be fed by the pilot? On the ground? Through data link? That’s what I read too specifically about this plane. Still I am not sure how that works exactly it if it really “just” couple autopilot with what coordinates you receive from ground control? Which is a natural reaction to such as system.

In this article the MiG-25 pilot describes that he is pretty much flying on autopilot although that doesn’t seem to be steering by ground control but simply running on autopilot. https://www.google.com/amp/s/hushkit.net/2018/12/12/loneliness-at-mach-3-interview-with-a-mig-25-foxbat-pilot/amp/ Now does anyone know if a typical intercept on lazur would be like this or do they only give the pilot instructions?

The Moskit-23 is indeed reported to be a further development of the Kopyo Radar used in the MiG-21-93. That is true and I intended it only for reference considering that the 23-98 upgrade option has a lot in common with the 21-93 upgrade including the radar family and supposedly the MFDs to improve the handling. Although the 23-98 is rumoured to use two MFDs rather than one. Same here. And I start to question if the Refit was ever truely completed. The complete absence of photos is suspicious

As a side note - this is how the MiG-21-93 cockpit looks like:

Hi all, I am curious about the Soviet Lazur GCI System. Is anyone here familiar with this? I read somewhere that the ground control pretty much controls the interceptors remotely and the pilot only takes off and then controls the throttle and the radar/weapons until the final assault where he retakes control of the plane. Is that true? And how does this work? Thanks for any insights

Did you have by chance the opportunity to fly a 23 yourself during that time? And what version did you fly against? An MF I assume? The max g load for earlier models was extremely low and got only improved in the later and lighter ML, MLA and MLD models.

Roger. See — it’s not necessarily the best turn fighter to win a dogfight. Essentially tactics and cooperation will beat brute force most of the times in my opinion Which brings me to the main point. While being able to manoeuvre like a dog may be impressive at airshows the tactical value is questionable. The most important factor is how you deploy your fighters. AWACS and the likes are key. Putting the fighters into the right fights and being even more critical than ground control. Essentially with the new generation AA Missiles and the right guidance it doesn’t matter if you employ a 23 or a 29 to deliver the R-77. I certainly see the business case if you already have a fleet of 23s. Now that said - do you know if the cockpit has been rebuilt according to the rumours or if that was just an “idea”?

Well considering the 23 had a look down shoot down radar, BVR missiles and reasonable agility all the while being a cheap point defends fighter the plane is kind of amazing. I think a lot of the bad mouthing stems from the combat records of the MS with MiG-21 radar and K-13 tugboat-missiles and the Bekaa Valley battle where the Syrians were blind and flanked. Neither tells exactly much about the plane itself. Especially not against contemporary designs

Well - considering they publish screenies of Tucanos, Argentina, BAE Lightnings and all sorts of other stuff I doubt they are focused on that. And on top - while it’s not the same - there is an FC3 F-15 to bridge the wait to a real module. Regardless - I think they should bump up the 23 on the priority list. It’s a unique and intriguing plane

Hi all, I am curious about the proposed MiG-23-98 upgrade and I hope to find some knowledgeable ppl here with more insights. The proposed 23-98 upgrade program was aimed to extend the lifecycle of the MiG-23 in the late 1990s after the relatively interesting MiG-21-93 upgrade. Basically it was supposed to replace the Saphir-23 with a Moskit-23 - which in turns seems to be evolved from the MiG-29’s radar (?). Plus adding new missiles such as the R-77 and helmet sights. There have been two further proposed versions which were less comprehensive (98-2 and 98-3). That is basically the known facts around this. Rumour has it that Angolan MiG-23 may have received the -2 or -3 upgrade (?). Now - as far as I know they converted an MLD as a demonstrator - there are some pictures on the internet about it: NOW - here is finally my question Does anyone have further infos or pictures about the proposed upgraded cockpit? As per the scarce info it seems like two MFDs were planned to be added (potentially the same ones as on the MiG-29SMT) - does anyone know anything on this? Cheers and thanks all in advance!