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That's what i'm talking about. :thumbup: My understanding was that Yo-Yo has documents that prove the 109 climbed better than 22m/s . Also my understanding from Yo-Yo's posts was that 31 m/s is indeed to high .

30mm damage model Vs Human driven p51 (Online Recording but 3x slower to see the hits clearly) UJHZIjEBxYg The vertical and horizontal stabilizer don't fly off or suntain any damage, not even the elevator part of the horizontal stabilizer of the rudder part of the vertical stabilizer sustains any damage. The p51 was fine,after this,i killed it after a long chase with the mg's. I would post a track too .But they all go stupid at some point and don't record MP action correctly.

I think the p51 is too slow too. I think Yo-Yo posted that the climb rate is a little too high for the 109 but it was not 9m/s lower in real life. But don't you find it weird that the p51 cans till turn at 270km/h and the 109 can't at such low speeds? Honestly I couldn't care less which turn better but this is what I experienced. @solty welcome to my ignore list.

n79oBS6An3g I hit the p51 5 times with my first pass and than 2 more times in the left wing.No problem for the p51. What do you guys think ? Thanks for voting, watching. mk108-vs-p51-wing-1.trk

Wings are fixed. As the other guys pointed out the 109 feels really unstable in pitch .Slats no slats it shakes to much and wants to stall all over the place. To me the p51 seems more controllable, stable at low speed(not in a climb).It's kinda not what I read but I guess i'll have to deal with it. I don't have a problem shooting p51s by the hundred in Mp.But the 109 instability ruins my immersion.

Yes I forgot about the LOD mod.If offers better vis. on that server.

I get your point. There should be done something to improve vision in DCS but don't think scaling is the answer.

After spending 5-6 days on the ACG WW2 server I got use to a certain extent to spot enemy planes(the size of a ww2 fighter) in DCS. But I have quite better vision than the average person. The map was quite small so the area you need to scan for enemy planes is also small which helps a lot. On larger maps it's very very hard to spot planes. Things that I find problematic: 1.Frame rate drops. In adition to the amount you need to zoom a frame drop has made me loose the plane I was tracking many times. Probably will get fixed with EDGE arrival. 2.You need to zoom in quite a lot to spot anything and you loose a lot of the peripheral vision. 3.More than a few times I find myself spotting the shadow of a plane first and the plane later and harder. Should this be happening ? Shouldn't a plane reflect more light towards my eyes than it's shadow ?

I got only 50 something ping on that server.The performance should be great.

It has bee proved by tracks and videos that the wing brakes too easy on the 109.ALso sometime you can pull up to 10G without blacking out even a little bit. Yo-Yo also thinks something is wrong. But like you posted in the PM(private messege) you sent me: 12-07-2014 04:27 PMAla13_ManOWar you're idiot. Maybe you know better :thumbup:.

I also noticed the same thing.I use 7 seconds of combat flaps.Seems to work best .Lowering the flaps more seems to be doing more harm than good.But still can't turn at slower speed than 320 km/h.:D

check my track.Now i'm doing the same thing with the 109.You can't sustain a turn under 320km/h with the 109 but with the p51 you can . But the 109 doesn't bleed as much speed in a turn. :megalol: The AI is no proof.No human will turn like that with the 109 or p51.In my exp 109 twitches like crazy sometimes at 450 km/h. Post a track like I did. Or a video .Not just words. And in the end I told you I wanted to express my point of view.I'm not trying to convince anybody. If you can turn better with the 109 great for you :D . 109.trk

Just to express my opinion about low speed turning between 109 and p51 in DCS: Uc1DOIquQZc P51 has 30% fuel and the 109 has 50%. Used two stages of flaps for p51 and 7 seconds of flaps for 109 and mw50 (in my experience this is optimum for sustained turns). To me it looks like the p51 can keep turning at lower speeds that the 109 can. And the 109 can keep at little bit better it's speed in a turn. When I senced the stall is getting closer I tried to pull the turn slightly downwards(nose slightly toward the ground) with both panes.I managed this better with the 51. Overall if i'd had to choose I'd say the p51 turns a little bit better at low speed with this much fuel(30% vs 50%) because it feels more stable than the twitchy 109. This is what I have forund out.I don't want to enter any disputes with anybody.:D turn-turn-33-1.trk turn-turn-33-33-1.trk

I know what you mean. I was doing some testing tonight and I would say the turn rate is about equal at low alt when the mustang has low fuel.I could sustain a turn even at very low speeds with both planes. Sometimes the 109 twitches like crazy even at 450 km/h and the p51 does not.I don't know if it's because of the slats or what. And the p51 flaps seem more effective.

This is also what I've noticed personaly. But different people might have different experiences.

Sorry Sith.

@Solty If you believe you got me than why do you need to convince me ? I wouldn't dishonor my self and lie just to deny someone an online kill. You told in the commentary that you got a lot of hits on my plane.But it's visible both on tacview and on the video you barely got a few bulets in my plane.If we let everything else aside.Is that not dishonest ? I wouldn't say to someone I defeated "your plane had every advantage". It's not polite.I'm disappointed I called you friend.And the subject is closed to me. If you belive the 109 was disadvantaged by bad, hard controls, rudder.Why do you say it's so much better than the P51 in every way. When i'll fly the p47 you will not see me brag what a hero I am for flying it and I'm sure i'll get lots of kills.

http://navyflightmanuals.tpub.com/P-1222/P-12220044.htm : The defensive spiral is a maneuver used by the defender when the kinetic energy becomes depleted and other last-ditch maneuvers can not successfully be implemented. The maneuver consists of dropping the nose low during the turn and going into a spiral dive, using gravity to supply the energy needed to continue evasive action. The defensive spiral becomes a rolling scissors performed straight down. The defender's goal is to stay out of phase with the attacker until the ground is dangerously close. ". The advantage usually goes to the aircraft that can decelerate quicker " Shaw's book on bfm page 95: Minimum acceleration is the desirable factor, so idle power, speed brakes, reverse thrust, drag chutes, or almost any action that reduces forward thrust and increases drag is appropriate. At slow speeds, the largest component of maximum total drag is usually induced drag, which is generally maximized by maintaining the highest controllable angle of attack(The 109 has advantage here). I was making the spiral because my plane turns better and it's a disadvantage to accelerate faster in this kind of fights. You see that in the last part of the video he drops throttle to 0(he's not trying to accelerate but slow down).Giving me the teoretical advantage because my plane is beter designed for low speed fights.

Sorry for the offtopic but i wouldn't coment on GrapeJam's fight unless i would be involved in one. First of all I wouldn't tell someone "your plane had every advantage". I would tell "I got lucky".;) "not going vertical up instead" I saw him very late. he was too close to climb.And i was thinking at the time he came out of a dive and had more energy than me.You see when you're in the fight you see things differently.;) Since the ultimate braking point is 10.5 g and my wing broke at 6.7 g i just don't see it as a maneuver kill. Sorry i just don't.;) Could he have killed me ? Probably yes. But i got out of situations like this lots of times(in p51 vs p51 action i used lots of spirals to get away and it worked too). Sometimes i enjoy a long scissors fight even if i get shot down. "even that the end you were only making it worse for yourself" .I was making a spiral.I created a little bit of separation .Standing still would have been worse.;) I prefer sour cherry jam. No disrespect intended. Seriously.

I'm not such a great pilot compared to you.So if you could show me a video where you fly the 109 and just waste a ton of p51's that would be great. But you see i'm poor and i only have this equipment : No head tracking(i don't have money for TIR,and i can't get the freetrack to work), no pedals, no hotas. I have to save a lot of time to buy DCS modules. So show me how you do in a 109 using just this.

DCS hurt my feelings because it broke my wing many times :lol:. You put only 4 bullets in my right wing and my left broke(green marking from bottom): When you actually hit my plane enough time for it to brake apart or destroy the engine,or a major malfunction than that's a kill and I will shake your hand(virtually). So i'm giving you only half a hand shake because :thumbup: :You might have done it because I wasn't in a great position(I was in a shit position(sounds funny :D )) but we'll never know. I agree " Without emotions game is boring" . I'm going for a smoke now :D see you in the virtual sky my friend.

. Click on image to make it larger + check post #164 from picture. I couldn't help myself. :)

The version i used when i played MP yesterday was 1.2.16.37558.

I recorded the whole tacview track. I pulled modest amount of G before the final scene from the duel i posted earlier (video at 211 post). Also at the moment my wing broke i pulled 6.7 G.It seems too low for the wing to brake IMHO. Lw_zqxeNLto also i only got hit 4 times by p51 mg so there should be almost no damage because of that. In the picture last green marking from the bottom :

Your comentary is not accurate. I was the first 109 you shot down. 1.I had almost a full tank and you probably had way less fuel that's why you outurned me probably.I flew verry little online.I belived i could outurn a p51 easy.But after a few tests(with p51 offline after that) i think that a p51 with little fuel turns just as well as a 109 (That's just me). 2.You only got a few hits on me. 3.I didn't panic .I stalled because i could not mentain the turn. I panicked later then i was in a candlestick climb with a p51 i managed to shoot down eventually. 4."Goes around without any coherent movement" ? q5pzeE_D43E Or the wing broke because is inadequately modeled. Looks coherent to me.It's a spiral :joystick: .