Top Jockey

Thank you ED !

Indeed to be honest, when I wrote the above comment, part of my mind was telling me: "there will be probably a few people in the forum, which may not catch that it is purely a humorous provocation towards @Victory205"... So, to be perfectly clear: that comment was nothing other than just that, and I believe he already knows my 'record', with the cheap talk easy jokes - that's why I even added the Phantom's engine out ! :thumbup:

Hello there. Let me tell you Victory205, regarding the DACT against the Phantom what happened was; that you and your team mates were indeed very lucky... lucky you never crossed paths with Mr. Randy "Duke" Cunningham in his F-4J. Otherwise, I believe that he would have thaught all of you "Tomcat maverick wildcards", a lesson in old-school fashioned Air Combat Maneuvering... and probably with one of the Phantom's engine out... But hey, there's no shame whatsoever about it; "in order to overcome our difficulties, one must first know and experience them" and such. All the best! :thumbup:

@Boresight here... Still recal very well SF2: NA and the vast collection of mods.

Thank you !

Thank you for the insight. In bold, that's the only way I could get those 30.4 deg/sec ITR in the MiG - quick pull. Didn't try very much with the Su-27 for Tacview, but I suspect that it would achieve even higher ITR than the MiG-29. But tested it enough to get the impression, that the Flanker can even maintain a slightly smaller Turn Radius tha the Fulcrum. (Roughly 280m at 300 kph for the Flanker, vs 300m at 320 kph for the MiG.) Also, I've tested just a little the F-14B in Tacview, and let me just tell you (something that you already know from long ago): In DCS, the amount of pure G force the Tomcat can employ at around 330 kts (clean config, sea level)... does give it such a Sustained Turn Rate, that the Fulcrum and probably the Flanker can only be envious of. I mean, sometimes one starts to think: " maybe the papers are inverted ? "... even the F-15C feels more maneuverable than the MiG-29 in several aspects. Man... does the Fulcrum have any card up its sleeve after all ? I mean, in gone times (~the 90's) it was referred to as: "probably the world's most lethal dogfighter" and such... but in DCS against other types, frequently I really don't get that feeling. Looking at it in DCS, I must admit it sure is a far cry from the very first impressions I got on it, long ago: - "TOPGUN: Fire AT Will!" for PC, circa 1995 ; - ok, I'm fully aware that its flight model realism was "debatable", bearing in mind its time ; - the F-14 Tomcat featured was probably the "A" version with the underpowered TF-30 engines ; - the enemy Su-27s never appeared that much maneuverable, as I imagine they came full on internal fuel, since supposedly according to the script these types were frequently employed in long range flights, allied bomber interception, anti-ship attack, etc. ... but the MiG-29, that was indeed something else... frequently flown by bogeys to directly confront my Tomcat; also flown by the main vilain, and in every situation - with an astonishing Sustained Turn Rate and also a perceptibly small turn radius, causing a dogfight with him to be extremelly difficult to win in the Tomcat. Then one beggins to test the MiG thoroughly in DCS, and it does look somewhat...wihtout that much dangerous capability.

Hello Sorry, but I still don't have the slightest idea of where are those documents, or where is the "newsletter" @Yo-Yo mentioned.

Sorry, newsletter ? Didn't know it. Can't find it at all. You mean this: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151478&page=27 https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/dcs_a_10c_warthog_released/downloads/downloads/screenshots/en/myserials.php

Didn't get there yet. Still those seem to be Sustained turn rates, yes?

I'm still a newbie in tacview, but like in the image below: - you click the symbol in the red circle (bottom of the screen) - then "select objects labels" - and in the next list, you select the data you want. - for changing the type of units in data, you select the symbol in green circle - top of the screen. You must keep the cursor over the aircraft to the data keep showing. Also the aircraft symbol (green circle in the bottom) must be selected.

Glad to know it! Let me just show part of my 'testing' on the MiG-29's capabilities regarding Instantaneous Turn Rate. As the 28 deg / sec mentioned throughout several places in the web isn't its absolute maximum ITR... sure was VERY low on fuel, and also a clean config, but managed 30.4 deg / sec. Airspeeds in kph.

Oh I see. Is it possible to get the diagram (with ROT insteag of Gs) for the MiG-29 anywhere ? Thank you.

Hello, Just to be sure, this diagram is for the MiG-29 or Su-27 ?

From the diagram I posted above, I believe that for the MiG-29: - maximum Sustained Turn Rate, would be at 900 kph (at the least at 5000 ft), at sea level I believe it should be a t a lower speed; - maximum STR should be roughly 22º / sec. - corner speed is probably around 685 kph - both from the diagram above, and from other people here at the forum; - using Tacview, managed to get a minimum Turn Radius of: 300m at a 330 kph speed.

Hello again everyone, I've been posting my doubts at the russian forum also, which indeed helped to clarify some aspects, but still, some doubts do persist. So I'm asking your opinion on my comment below, if you will - which is: If the Su-27 supposedly does have the advantages I've writen in 4 points, how come are the MiG-29's close combat capabilities frequently praised in several places ? Thank you. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4455236&postcount=80

И снова здравствуйте, товарищи знающие МиГ-29 и Су-27, Я снова здесь, с дополнительными вопросами по поводу маневров МиГ-29 и Су-27. Я смотрел свои прошлые компьютерные игры и ... Я снова нашел интересные вещи. Я уверен, что вы помните изображения. Согласно тексту на странице 76 инструкции к игре «Фланкер 2.0», Красное подчеркивание на изображении: " Су-27 далек от непобедимого (о чем свидетельствуют неоднократные воздушные бои с МиГ-29 из Западной Германии, оснащенными шлемной системой). " Как вы уже знаете, эти два самолета мне очень интересны. Тогда помогите мне понять, пожалуйста: Также в комментарии № 25, опубликованном коллегой Торием, сообщается, что МиГ-29 показал преимущества в воздушном бою. Однако с учетом того, что Су-27: 1 - имеет более высокую скорость мгновенного вращения (30 градусов / сек); 2 - может тянуть больше перегрузок на малых скоростях, чем МиГ-29; 3 - не так быстро теряет скорость на повороте, как МИГ-29, из-за того, что он "Fly By Wire" и имеет «нестабильную» аэродинамику»; 4 - предположительно имеет меньший радиус закругления; Итак, как это возможно, прочитав на нескольких сайтах, что МиГ-29 имеет преимущество в воздушном бою? Спасибо.

Thank you for the insight Cmptohocah. Regarding Sustained turn rate, I'm asking about the absolute maximum ... So the Su-27's minimum Turn Radius, is bigger than the MiG-29's one after all ? edit: By the way, using Tacview, in DCS I can do a 300m minimum turn radius without much problem with the Su-27, so my doubts still persist...

A small doubt : From the diagrams below, one can conclude that the maximum sustained turn rates, for those circumstances, are attained respectively at the speeds: MiG-29: ~ 900 kph Su-27: ~ 970 kph Correct ?

See the full thread, comments like #14 (for instance) seem pertinent also. http://forums.eagle.ru:8080/showthread.php?t=215246

I believe the AIM-9 functions in the F/A-18C aren't exactly the same as in the F-16C. Which is, if I recal correctly, in the Hornet there aren't clearly separated BORE / SLAV vs CAGE / UNCAGE functions; but more like a 'mix' between them... Also see here if this helps: http://forums.eagle.ru:8080/showpost.php?p=3573850&postcount=15

On facebook, indeed some clowns on drugs do appear sometimes. Keep up the good work!

In DCS actually, it seems to be F-14B (at the least in Sustained Turn Rate). In real life, I don't know, as the surprises do keep comming...

What I placed in bold on @Cmptohcah's comment, is indeed what doesn't make sense for me. But it is most probably a language issue - some days ago I tried for the first time, to participate in the russian forum (using google translate)... and let me tell you: it aint easy.

Hello kids... today 'uncle' Top Jockey stopped being a lazy bum and installed Tacview !!! Let's see which one turns quicker afterall ! Fulcrum or Flanker !

Получили. Спасибо за разъяснения.