IvanK

Just did a test. Syria map 6500' F1CE Target F1EE with 2 R550 Magic II, Missile Prep/cooling on switch on. Started 4nm behind got R550 tone very soon there after. With tone then decel still had tone at 5nm. So no issue for me. For ref Real World R550 Magic I tone Mirage IIIO target at 700deg C JPT (Dry/Mil power) R550 tone at 3.8nm dead 6 O'clock TRK in the ZIP F1EER550tone.zip

What does the STBY compass indicate ?

Missile cooling switch on ?

Surely "Pedro" or "Cisco"

Ok didnt find the third binding Now off looking for it EDIT: Found it Thankyou

Correct , Reticle is caged to the Centreline for all AG modes. You can only move it in elevation via Mills depression setting.

Mirage F1CE/EE Speed brake function. At present the Speed brakes can only be selected IN or OUT. This is incorrect. MOMENTARY BLIP FUNCTION IRL you can momentarily hold or "Blip" the speed brake. This involves "Blipping" of the speed brake or holding the speed brake to an intermediate position. If "blipping" the speed brake switch the Speed brakes will only deploy for as long as the switch is held in the intermediate position. As soon as the speed brake is released then the speed brakes surfaces retract. This is ideal for formation work when all you need is a little drag increase for a short period RFN. See video below Pilot is "blipping" the speed brake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUBMySqhWkY (If I could figure out how to make this a visible link rather than URL link I would ! ??) So if the pilot wishes he can move and hold the speed brake to the intermediate position the speed brakes will fully extended. as soon as the speed brake switch is released then they will retract. LOCK FUNCTION This is the only function currently modeled in DCS F1. this is used for long duration speed brake events, like descents etc. iRL the pilot must press the speed brake switch aft through an internal detent. The switch then remains in the locked OUT position. the pilot can remove his thumb from the speed brake switch. The video below is of a Mirage IIIO Speed brake switch in operation the F1 is identical. You can clearly see the operation of the detent switch. https://youtu.be/pjXicLg4cTo (If I could figure out how to make this a visible link rather than URL link I would ! ??) Excerpt from Mirage F1 Flight manual detailing speed brake switch function.

Found this image on the net Guns pass F1CG v F16. Just attached the line and GBL and centreline lines. Illustrates the Lead and Line quite well in the F1. Gun bore line is the centre of the Range scale index marker. Range 4.2hm.

That Looks About Right

HD use the TLAR delivery profile.

Snappy "If this was a steady sight picture and the pipper had stayed steady for one second already and let’s say instead of the targets left displacement, you would be in the same plane of motion, so the target would be along your gun centreline. If you now pressed the trigger , would you expect to score hits? Or is the pipper too far aft on the Center of the target aircraft body?Would it be considered a valid shot?" In short yes if you have the steady tracking.... especially against something as massive as a Tomcat. Having "The line" in the targets plane of motion is strictly speaking a sight handling thing, By getting the line in the targets plane of motion then you can predict to a certain extent pipper drift, and allows smoother control. If however you can achieve 1.2 X time of flight steady tracking anywhere on the aircraft then it would be considered a valid gun shot. However maintaining the pipper on the target without having the line in the targets plane of motion is going to be a lot harder. As the G increases (typical of a guns tracking pass with reducing range) then the displacement of the line from the firers plane of symmetry (Gunsight centreline) will reduce. so as the pass continues with increasing G then you again need to smoooooothly increase roll in the direction of the turn. So a guns tracking pass is a very finely balanced 'tapping your head and rubbing your tummy" type of thing. The F14 shot was at fairly low G ... hence the displacement from the firers gunsight centrline. So in general terms how far the Sight line is displaced from the gunsight centreline is a direct indication of G. All this discussion is in relation to LCOS distributed sights. Image below is a guns tracking pass with ball ammo on a DART towed by a RMAF F5E in a left hand turn. (DART is pretty small ... a lot smaller than the 30ft banner we usually used) These are two successive frames of a radar locked tracking pass at 5.4hm (so a long range shot). If you look closely can see puffs of smoke coming from the DART from ball impacts. On this sortie we (2 of us) ended up shooting the thing off the cable. And one more image because its a beauty .... a Slow crossing rate snapshot

Interesting. I presume the Pilot immediately post AA refueling manually resets the fuel debitmeter with the new revised fuel total ?

Oesau Yep

An interesting snippet from fausete: "Another source of error is the employed AoA: the aircraft calculates a high and low airspeed AoA approximation, and the sight only takes the high speed one so at low speeds you can expect errors of up to 1°." This I think refers to how the sight deals with Trajectory shift. If so then its similar to the CSF97K in the Mirage III in that a fixed value for Trajectory shift was applied by the sight... part of the reason for the Harmonization being offset in the vertical. So if thats the case at any time the AOA is other than the value used for the trajectory shift calculation an error in the plane of symmetry will occur .... so if in doubt add a bit more lead (Modern Director style sights F18/16 etc calculate Trajectory shift in real time.) Snappy " "I don’t doubt what you wrote , but was really surprised about the 30% hit rate under steady perfect tracking. I have to look it up again , but I think I somewhere read about the criteria for valid gunshots during Red Flag in the 70s and it required only very few frames of tape with pipper on target. That seemed to imply, if the pipper was on the targets the rounds were going to hit." The 30 % figure is of all rounds fired in multiple passes on a towed banner. This was a repetitive series of passes aiming for consistent sight handling every time.... gives you an impression of just how difficult it was to achieve hits. Each round of each firer was colour dipped in different colours so scoring was by physical hole counting and matching colours. so for 250 rounds fired you are talking 75 hits. In my time the highest score achieved (not by me) was 50% and that was exceptional. With the FA18 scores were much higher and 50% hits were in fact close to the norm, this using Director mode gunsight in the FA18 and before the batr came to the Hornet. WRT Pipper on and cine/video tracking as you refer to in a Red Flag type scenario.. Our BFM/ACM gun kill criteria was steady pipper on the target for 1 second with a firing witness marker evident on the film. and range inside 6Hm ... the rationale to allow for the sight solution time. Not forgetting just 1 or 2 30mm HE hits will kill any fighter aircraft. So whats perhaps the best way to use the sight ? When setting up the shot dont concentrate on the pipper....think about the gun bore line (somewhere up near the top of the combining glass) and get that ahead of the target on the "line" then allow the pipper to come into your scan and smoooooooothly make minor corrections to control pipper drift on to the target.... not so easy in a dynamic BFM engagement ! ... IMO aim for steady tracking for at least one second, try to overlead slightly ... if possible have the pipper on the forward portion of the target rather than towards the tail. Secondly dont discount a slow drifting pipper snapshot as long as open fire occurs before pipper touches the target. And finally as it has always been Get in close . In plane snap shots are your friend and in many cases in the heat of an engagement are probably the best you are going to get especially if the bad guy knows you are there. Make the decision early to employ a snapshot rather than attempt a tracking shot ...... set up the snapshot right from the get go ... get the Gun bore line ahead of the target get in the targets plane of motion, get rounds out there early . This is a single frame (the best one of course )of relatively slow early set up snap shot against a 9G F16. Silly bugger broke in plane ... but even so as you can see I didn't get the line exactly right. Dont think to many rounds would have hit him "spray and pray" .... but rattled his bones We did a lot of Snaphot training especially on the way home from BFM sorties. In this way you develop a real feel where to put the target in the sight to get the gun bore lime ahead of the target and establish the line. This then equipped you with a good method bordering on instinct to take every snap shot opportunity that presented itself in a fight. Also imo actually doing a guns tracking shot in every PC based combat flight Sim I have flown is harder for the same scenario than it is real life. Joy stick feed back/feel limited peripheral vision, calculation and graphic cycles all I guess complicate the problem even further ... then comes multiplayer ... dont have to worry about Ping IRL.

Snappy. I am not one of the devs but just a true Mirage nutter , with real world Mirage III experience in the last century Comparing the Mirage sight to a modern Director sight like in the FA18/F16 leaves us with the impression that pipper on means real time solution and therefore hits. I looked at the track. You did get some hits... albeit not many. Though looking at the tracking and comparing it to real world experience against a 30foot banner (Radar locked LCOS in the Mirage III) the hits you got are probably about right. Even with perfect tracking in the Squadron a score of more than 30% hits was rare. If I was assessing your "film" in the squadron (which I used to do as a weapons instructor) I would simply say your tracking needs to improve ... harsh perhaps but that would have been the reality in the squadron. In your case the pipper is moving , everytime it moves the LCOS solution is behind the game. Recall the sight solution time is probably around 1.2 X the time of flight. in other words you need the pipper on and stable for perhaps at a minimum for 1.2 seconds for the solution to be correct. Everytime the pipper moves (through minor flight control input the timer starts again. So sight handling in an LCOS sight is an art form that requires really really smooth flight control input and anticipation of pipper movement and the interplay between Range, range rate and sight solution time. The LCOS pipper can be likened to being held by two opposing rubber bands. The pilot controls the rear band with the stick, more backstick the rear band pulls the pipper backwards , reducing range the front band pulls the pipper forward, it is the pilot that has to control these forces such that the pipper moves along the "line" (primarily using roll for left right corrections and G for forward and aft corrections) and stabilizes on the target for 1.2 X the time of flight ... this is the art of sight handling. Now that deals with standard LCOS, what about the ANT function ? I only have a limited understanding of exactly what it does in the F1 through logic and reading the explanation in the F1KED manuals (where the sight is effectively always in the ANT mode when locked on). Reading this info leads me to believe that ANT just adds radar antenna position and angle rates to the firing solution. because of this the computation knows the current position of the gun reticle and the target (orange square) the system can than monitor the coincidence of both the theory being if the GYRO reticle is on the orange TD square then it is a valid solution so hits (again assuming sight solution time has been observed) should ocurr. this then allows Auto fire if selected to occur. The F1KED manual states that if coincidence is inside 15mills (and in range) then Autofire will be initiated. though to me 15mills is a huge tolerance. in the F1KED manual there is also reference to "Future prediction angles for radar distance firing at a fleeting target" Not exactly sure what that means but might result in reduced sight solution time ? This then needs discussion of gun harmonisation . The 30MM Defa rattled around a fair bit during firing. For a single DEFA the quoted dispersion was 4mills. In the Mirage III the guns are NOT point harmonised but rather harmonised in a Figure of 8 area type pattern leaning over about 30degrees to the right. Each gun axis separated by 3mills in the vertical The resultant field of fire about 7mills dispersion. This "shotgun" like harmonization to somewhat compensate for gun movement, pilot tracking quality and computational accuracy. I have no idea in the F1 as to what the harmonization pattern was, but i doubt they were point harmonized. Then there is the issue of scintillation. This is the radar tracking point moving around especially as you get close, this will result in the TD square moving around the target as the radar grabs a better return. Scintillation is a real thing and could even be seen in the FA18 circa 1985. The TD box would wander all over the target aircraft. The final point. I am unaware of to what extent in the AERGES F1 all of this has been implemented. Happy tracking

Worth a read of this thread: The Gyro input is fed to the computing section (together with all the other stuff) this then passed on to the collimating unit that positions the gun reticle and TD square. As far as I can make out putting the switch in ANT just provides additional radar info like Antenna pointing angles and antenna angular rates to the computing unit to refine the gunnery solution and also permit Auto fire if selected, and sufficient accuracy to enable Blind (IMC) gun firing. In GYRO you just get a basic LCOS sight that uses Radar range if locked on or fixed range (600m/300m) if not locked on.

FD not yet implemented so until then you are stuck with Raw data

So in dealing with the displayed reticle size. I took the IL76 image and the Reticle sizes stated in the MB339 manual. Then using the image worked out what 50mills in Pixels should subtend (between the Yellow arrows) that came to 276pixels. I then compared the FIE representation of 50 mills (White arrows) that came to 426 pixels. I conclude that he IFE MB339 Reticle is 1.54 times to big. The second error is that the Mills depression scaling is also wrong. This is a little harder to determine but I think its in the order of 6 times to big. i.e. a supposed current entry of 850 mills should more reasonably be 140mills to provide a realistic real world sight line. Tied in with all of this is the exact Zero Sight Line position in the combining glass AND its relationship to the 3D model and the flight model AOA to IAS relationship. A complex problem, but at present these errors prevent accurate/realistic weapons delivery calculation and or sight setting.

Be nice to get the Radar elevation errors sorted in both Delta H and elevation modes

And if we use the Mills diagram we can see that only about 100mills worth of depression should be usable.... which then begs the question is the Zero mill datum correct or the sight reticle size in mills correct ? Next checking Reticle Mills versus Known object size. Placed an IL76 with wingspan of 50.5m a distance of 1000m away from MB339. So Reticle should subtend wingspan. Results below. What you see in the sight .. something does not look right here. My head now officially hurts so off to fly and enjoy the wonderful thing the MB339 is .

Trying to resolve this (to me) huge disparity in depression settings real world calculation to quoted value in game documentation; I went into FMB and tested some calculations I made for level bombing using my settings. The result weapon impacts nowhere near the the pipper. So checked actual bomb range achieved (used a runway to get accurate length).. bomb range was very very close to the book numbers so ballistics are good. So what is the issue ? I wondered if there was something wrong with the Mill values used in the depression setting and or an issue with the mill dimension of the reticle. Using the references in the manual conducted a test to see what gives. Sitting on the Runway with Zero depression (Left image) the Top of the pipper is tangential to the red Runway lights. I then wound in the depression to set the top of the vertical bar to be tangential to the red runway lights (right image). This required in a game a depression setting of 70mills. I then went to the reticle dimension diagram in the manual to measure the same angular value in the sight the answer was 9 mills ! .... a difference of 61mills. So either the depression relationship in the FIE MB339 is in error or the reticle sizes are in error. More testing to come to try and figure out whats what ... I suspect its the depression value scaling.

Just had a look through the Depression tables published, The huge depression values looked way over the top to me so went to calculate some. I took the example given in the IFE Manual for 45 deg Dive MK82 Slick, 5000' release Alt , 400KTas .. it calls for depression of 850mills !! (The sight allows up to 999mills to be selected .....a crazy amount imo !) So Took the worked example in the MB339A Weapons manual (which includes wind corrections) and re worked it to the same values in the India foxtrot Echo manual. The red numbers mine. The ballistic figures for the MK82 taken from standard ballistic tables, the remainder from the 339A Weapons manual. The resultant Nil wind depression is just 140mills So something is not right in the depression settings provided in the manual. By inspection they all look way to excessive to me. The Level release at 500' has the same depression as 45 Deg release at 5000' ??

This is only a Visual thing visible in external view. It is not reflected in the flight control display and does not affect aircraft control.

Ok thanks, made me go looking and found the list on the DCS sight, The F1 changes didn't get a mention in Announcement forum change log.