M0ltar

The Flankers DL in the sim, not sure about real life, is connected to AWACS and GCI. Its not a true fighter2fighter DL system. Here in BF it would get info from the EWRs.

This entire server does not revolve around the Mirage. Some people don't have it, choose not to fly it, etc. Just because its on both sides does not mean its an even playing field for A2A. In most games, since you and I talked about MMO's you can use that as an example, if something is overpowered, people make changes to balance a server. Yes most of the time those changes are from devs, but that does not mean that the guys here at 373/BF can't make changes to balance things for this server specifically. Things get really stale when its just M2000 vs M2000 all the time and that is what it is now. Also, balance is something that is ongoing. In any game you play, Counter strike etc. there are on going changes to weapons and balance. If something is over used changes are made to balance the game and the environment. If DL doesn't help, take it out. All we want to do is try new things to see what it does to the environment. By the way, DL is STANDARD equipment for the Flanker. It was taken out originally in BF because it was broken. ED fixed it. Even 104th is letting the Flanker use DL now. We are not, and not advocating, for adding anything the Flanker does not have as standard equipment. If you don't want non-standard things to be in the sim than take away the M2000C D2M pod as it was only ever designed for the D variant and has never been deployed on a C.

I had heard somewhere that this was now modeled. Don't remember where or when, but I seem to remember this being a thing.

ER I may be able to see if you can put a restriction on how many can be carried. The ET I think is too good and will cause more issues than it fixes. I really think fixing the fueling for the big fighters and adding DL to the Flanker will improve balance of the Fighter v Fighter picture.

I don't think so. At least, not in my opinion. The Flanker needs something. SA is probably the easiest thing to add. If you look at the modules that are being flown live right now on BF its 9 M2000, 2 F15, and 1 Flanker. That doesn't tell you that something needs to be changed? Everyone that I talked to, on both blue and red, says they don't fly it because its a FM, they fly it because it gives them an advantage. The 530D is better, SA is better, and refueling is way faster. By the way, Im all for changing something for the Eagle as well to get more people into it, I just don't know what.

Is that possible?

Sigh... OK ignoring and moving on. I really think there needs to be some change for balance in the mission given how many people are flying the mirage and the Flankers abilities in comparison to the F15 and Mirage. I think the general consensus was that people want to see the flanker with a test using the Datalink?

Man I've lost all respect for you. Tell you what, I'll go home and get the track to show you what happened. I didnt the just fly into the missile. He dodged 3 27R at medium to close range and fired a single 530 at close range, well inside the RTR. I cranked dumped chaff and ate a missile. Seeing an engagement in GCI or spectator is not going to give you an details and neither is seeing an engagement from the ground when it's happening thousands of feet above you. I know I'm not the best flanker pilot, but I would bet that there are several people that would attest, even in this thread, that I know what I'm doing. I'm not one to fly head long into a missile and hope for the best. He'll check Twitch and watch my old streams. I know my way around the flanker especially in PvP. We're are having discussion about balance and you're here being little ... In the corner because he thinks the world should work how he sees it. EDIT: Can we just stop attacking each other? We were having a discussion about balance in BF. Yes it was heated, but we were making progress as people on both sides were contributing. Attacking each other is going to get us no where.

Ciribob, on a side note from the 530 discussion, you're doing an awesome job. It's great to get feedback for things and have a vocal presences on why things are certain ways and weather other things are being looked at. I think I speak for the entire community. It's been awesome having you here.

I hardly think discussing things pertaining to balance of BF is a pissing contest. You've been chiming in providing nothing, until last page with ciribob, helpful to the conversation. It's just been you complaining and trying to belittle people. People are providing examples and trying to explain why something needs to change. Just because you don't agree doesn't give you the right to be a dick. Frostie and even Phoenix, have been giving examples. Just because it's a heated argument doesn't mean it's wrong. People are passionate about their side and why they think it should be a certain way. That's both sides. This is a topic that's needs to be discussed and it's nice to see it getting traction one way or the other.

It always seems like you grasp on to one thing. Frostie and I are saying you can easily kill the AI with guns and that is why it is very important to do testing with missiles against humanity players. Of course we are not saying go after a fully armed human mirage with guns. You'd die. The AI in DCS is not a substitute for human controlled aircraft.

Good fights with that Mirage. Only saw you get smoked once. A couple things though, and Frostie has said 1 of them. You should be able to kill the AI each and every time even with guns. Most of the time the 530 loses you completely and is nowhere near you when you maneuver. At least a couple of times this is due to the Mirage turning away and losing lock. Compare the 530 and the 27R. Look how much more energy the 530 has than the 27R. The 530 is reaching its target, even though it was fired first and from well away, well before the 27R. Hell some of the time the 27R isn't even making it to the target when fired inside 10 NM. Lastly, like I said in a previous message, try this same fight against a human pilot and see what the results are like then. The AI is too inconstant and does some very strange things in the heat of a fight.

Thanks for posting. Excited to watch! Will ha e to be tomorrow though as it's bed time for me. Again, thanks for sharing!

I'd be all for a full engagement with all weapons and gizmos! We can talk about being untouchable all day, however we need to know what you did to go defensive? Did you turn cold? Just want to know what you did. Also, I really don't think AI is a substitute for real players. They do some strange things with radars, turning cold, notching, really anything. Not saying you're wrong, just want some more info. Also a better test may be to have a player fire at you in a closed test and see what happens. I don't trust DCS AI.

It gives recon and helis something offensive to do. You have to admit 10 bombs per bomber was a bit over the top. On top of that the helicopter can continually call them in and if the other team can't find the chopper... You get the point. 3 per to me seems like a good starting point for testing. If it turns out to be too few raise it to 5.

That was an argument that was trying to be used against the people saying the F15 and SU27 needed the fuel changed. Really not even sure how that comment adds anything relevant to what we're talking about.

I agree. The ER would more than likely make the 27 too OP. However improving its SA with DL might help the whole situation. This whole thing isn't about who has better missiles. Its about who has a better package with everything together and how do you balance it and right now the Mirage is winning that fight.

If someone is burning into a T at 7 miles, yeah they are going to die. I could fire a 73 at them from that range and if they don't know its there and fly towards it and into the 73 is going to kill them too; same for the AIM9 and Magic. The T handles like a bus and stays at max speed for under 1 second. The same can be said for the R. Go into the editor and watch the track and watch the speeds of the SARH missiles and the T. The T might as well be a very bad handling 73 and really is not worth carrying most of the time and the R is the same just radar guided so now the bandit knows about it. Im not saying the SU27 needs everything. I just feel that everyone is always out to get the 27 for some reason. The mirage was the new boy on the block and I know that people want to fly it. All I ask is to make it a little more even for the 15 and 27. Easiest way I think you go about that is getting rid of the IR pod and fixing the fuel issue. While you're at it, give the Flanker datalink! ;) 104th did and it seems to work well there.

My last rant was in no way me bitching about BF. Im just trying to help with balance and come with ideas. I think a lot of people are tired of the Mirage v Mirage battles that have been going on. Something to look at is the 104th's Operation Bisen mission. That mission has the Russian planes pitted against F15s and Mirages. However, the Su27 has the ER in that mission. Hell, Im pretty sure it even has datalink as AWACS is enabled. Even though those 2 things are true, more people fly that mission on both sides than any other mission that 104th offers. Going back to missiles real quick since Bisen gives the Su27 the ER. The 27R and 27T are really really bad. As Ive said before its like launching cinder blocks from your wings. I think giving the 27 and 29 the ER would really help in the fighter battles. As it sits right now if I can't sneak up on someone I have to turn around. The 27R and T are that bad. Im pretty confident the R73 has a longer range than the T. Occasionally I will get a kill with an R, but that is more because the enemy pilot flew straight into it.

Ciribob has said that he is addressing this and it was not an intended thing to have left on. It was just something that was left on while editing.

A couple of things since it seems my last question was missed... Is there a reason why the Flanker is now starting with zero fuel? Second, and this was brought up in TS, why does the Mirage have the IR detection module? As I understand it, and correct me if Im wrong, BF, as it currently sits, is modeled on an 80s theme. That's why certain missiles are restricted. If that is the case, why does the Mirage have this module? Didn't it come out after? Furthermore, that module was never even intended to be on the C. It was made for the ground attack variant of the plane. I get why the devs added it as it gives something new, but doesn't it depart from what BF is? Why are we allowing the Mirage to have something it never had, but afraid to give the Flanker something like datalink that it had in real life? I guess, all in all, Im just getting tired of everyone and their mother flying the m2000. I know that some people would like all of BF to be full of high fidelity planes, but that is just not going to happen right now due to a lack of modules. Im just continually trying to wrap my head around why everyone is always so obsessed with nerfing the Su27 and its ET and datalink, the F15 and its 120, but don't do anything about the Mirage and its IR detection, better modeled missile in the 530, IRL the 27R and AIM7 are just as good, and faster fuel rate. I get that the fuel rate is probably modeled correctly, but it frustrates me that the mirage can get air born in 2 min, while the Flanker spends 7 minuets refueling. /rant P.S. I know there is nothing that can be done about the missile modeling etc. Its just frustrating that other planes are nerfed and this thing is just left out to do whatever Im assuming because its on both sides.

Mustang, do you mind posting your preset file for reshade so we can share in your goodness or do you only run this one shader?

You guys can say that, but this level of saturation of 1 aircraft is not seen on any of the other servers, Open Conflict of 104th. Myabe its because there is more VR in BF, Im not really sure. All I know is that the Mirage is bar none the most flown aircraft. You give a plane such a large advantage, fuel and weapons, and people are going to fly it. The Mig and Flanker 27R are basically cinder blocks compared to the 530 and the Aim7. I know the Mirage can only carry 4 weapons, but in a Flanker I basically have to be on top of someone to kill them. I swear the R73 has a longer range than a 27R or 27T....

I dont think its limited to just the fuel. I think it also has to do with the 530 being the best missile, by far, in a limited scenario.

Are the Su27 supposed to be completely out of fuel when you spawn in?